TeamCapri
General => Build Threads => Topic started by: Aus Capri on February 16, 2021, 06:55:53 AM
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(https://i.imgur.com/Db0G4Jx.jpg)
1mm overbore to 79mm with forged Wiseco 8.6 compression ratio Pistons,
Cometic multilayer Stainless steel head gasket
Arp head Studs
Maxspeeding forged rods (meant to be good for 200hp per rod)
King race bearings main and rods
Polished crank journals
second hand head resurfaced and serviced
rotating assembly, assembled and balanced by Dominator engines Sydney
single ceramic ball bearing / Journal bearing GT3076 turbo
Modified turbo b16 civic manifold with a b6t flange welded
custom 4" downpipe into 3"exhaust all the way back
external wastegate
civic 3 row half radiator = new thermo fan
ebay intercooler
and heaps more i cant think of off the top of my head
Fresh deck, bores, pistons and arp studs.
(https://i.imgur.com/CXgTPpL.jpg)
Shiny 79mm 8.6/1 Wiseco Piston (sold for lowering the compression ratio of n/a 1.6L Miatas for turbo applications)
(https://i.imgur.com/pzjwQ7a.jpg)
VJ14 and GT3076 comparison
(https://i.imgur.com/W7z91c0.jpg)
Wrapped modified b16 civic manifold
(https://i.imgur.com/st0JWJ2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TbmgST5.jpg)
VJ14 on left GT3076 middle (obviously) and VF12 on right
(https://i.imgur.com/fjbdB1C.jpg)
Old Bores after headgasket blow out me refilling it with water to confirm headgasket failure and foolishly letting it sit for 2 weeks, i should have drained the water and ran it for a second to blow out any water and lubricate the bores with oil...
(https://i.imgur.com/nnYsyFQ.jpg)
Stock exhaust vs 3inch
(https://i.imgur.com/pUhxs5F.jpg)
Mocking up exhaust
(https://i.imgur.com/tIpqAuL.jpg)
Check out how filthy the bay was
(https://i.imgur.com/ksG8ReN.jpg)
Painted engine bay
(https://i.imgur.com/rhPhe6b.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h74627W.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OjnUFZa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/83gw13C.jpg)
Engine coming together
(https://i.imgur.com/E9eErY1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Acmrhyy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/I1S2GJP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BFYgTYB.jpg)
Intercooler fitted
(https://i.imgur.com/P1br3XM.jpg)
Finally finished after 9 months
(https://i.imgur.com/50dTvRB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ViTW8T6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CdlQPXO.jpg)
I was running out of fuel at around 19psi at 5000 rpm so i couldn't help my self and i removed the blow off valve(recirulation valve) and stole its silicone t coupler and moved it up to the throttle body to use as a spot to mount an additional injector, i pissed off the idle air valve and used the port off the intercooler piping to mount the original recirulation valve and plumbed it back to the silicone t coupler before the turbo.
I mounted a pressure switch set to 20psi to activate an additional injector and it works a treat! 11.7 afr up to 25spi at 6500rpm
(https://i.imgur.com/Ni1Zrfl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BWMWW2T.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bYIn9tR.png)
In that last pic its at 25psi at 6500rpm with a 11.7 AFR. Its a screenshot from a video i took whilst driving but i have spotted a problem reviewing the footage, My Brand new 6 puck clutch and pressure plate are slipping after 5000rpm aaaarrrrggghjhhh in third gear its doing 85Kph at 4000rpm 105kph at 5000rpm and only 115 at 6500rpm! it should be up around 135 by that point, i can see in the video the tacho spikes but not much happens on the speedo after 5200rpm. Lesson of the story is, dont buy a cheap piece of crap xtd clutch. there claims are wildly inflated of this clutches holding power its got a tiny bit more bite than stock and thats it. if you have any plans of real power gains stay the hell away from XTD clutches. the price should have been a dead give away!
A bit of history on the car I've had it for about 3 years it was $700 Aussie dollars with 8 months rego! bargain as that's not far off what 8 months rego costs! it had a blown head gasket and a misfire when i bought it and the oil looked like grey sludge!
did the head gasket and changed the leads (fixed misfire) then got addicted to boost, first just turning up boost then VJ 11 comp wheel upgrade and 380cc injectors, then a VF12 from an old legacy on 22 pounds (went pretty good at this point! I blew the head gasket and that's when i took the motor out and got carried away 9 months ago. I have a wideband 02 sensor and gauge i use to monitor the Afr's and tuning is done by a combination of tweaking the airflow meter, bigger injectors, chipped ecu with a more aggressive fuel map and now its got the big turbo an additional injector before the throttle body triggered off a pressure switch set to 20 psi. It makes 25psi by 5200rpm and still has a 11.7 afr at 6500rpm
Hope you all enjoy the thread, its been a mission but i'm so happy with it! (its absolutely mental when boost loads!)
Dave Robbo (boost addict)
rocketman, hit me up if you can raise the rev limit on a chipped stock ecu, it has a fueltronic chip in it... im keen!
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Nice looking car.
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thanks man, it looks a bit off at the moment i had to hammer a buldge in the bonnet to make room for the top mount turbo thats an older pic up the top
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Anyone out there know if there is a way to up the rev limiter on a chipped standard ecu, it's got a fueltronic chip in it... I'm looking at you rocketman.... 😂
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This looks like a hell of a build. What sort of power are you aiming for? Have you got any more details on how you used a D-Series Honda exhaust manifold with the Capri? I find that fascinating. Do the exhaust runners line up with the ports, or was it more involved than that? I hate how flimsy these manifolds are.
Also, for the pictures, I upload my stuff to imgur. From there, they give you a forum code link that you can just copy and paste. In multiple sizes, even.
Good luck with your build though man, this looks awesome. Your car is super clean too, I'm jealous. I can't wait to get out of the Northeastern USA. Damn salty roads keep eating my cars.
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Hey Eshepherd, I guess it's making around 300ish at the moment but should be able to make around 400hp with a good tune. I have seen 1.6 miatas with 400 so I guess it's possible on our motors too, they are the same block.
As for the manifold number 1 and 4 runners line up pretty much spot on and 2 and 3 and not that far off, I just cut the civic flange between the runners leaving a bit of civic flange left on the end of each runner so I had a solid bit of steel to weld to the b6t flange to make it easy to weld. I didn't move number 2 and 3 runners to line up 100 percent with the ports on the b6t flange they were close enough I could fill the tiny gap with weld then shaped the inside of the runner with a dremal to smooth it out.
Thanks for the posting pic advice!
We are lucky here in aus the cars keep really well, my capri only has a few rust spots and that's only because used to live near the beach! In general cars keep really good here.
I'm originally from the UK and the cars there rust out real bad too
Dave Robbo
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That is a crazy build.
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Hey I'm glad you got the pictures to work. This thing is absolutely insane looking. Phenomenal work there man. How bad is the lag with such a big turbo on there? Does it still handle well at speed? I'd be afraid of some crazy bump steer at those speeds with such a short wheel base. Kudos, though. Easily the coolest one of these cars I've ever seen.
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It makes about 5 psi around 3200rpm and making ok power at 5psi with the big turbo, no boost at all under 3000rpm though. It's not too bad under 3000rmp, the 8.6/1 compression ratio pistons bring the compression up to 180 so it's not to dull. It makes about 10psi by 4200rpm and then in a split second goes to the moon!
I only give it the beans in straight lines and make sure their ain't no corners coming up. I wouldn't give it full throttle around corners at high rpm that's fore sure you can morerate the throttle and give it a little boost around corners but even in a straight at high high boost, it's hard to keep it in a straight line, it's pulling all over the place.
I had it up to 32psi tonight but was hitting 12.9 afr (a bit lean for that boost) so I backed off, the clutch is useless at that power too. I'm gonna pull the motor in a few months after I save my penny's up for a decent clutch and a billet geared oil pump. Then I will see what that 32 psi actually feels like when it makes it to the wheels!
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That sounds thrilling, and absolutely terrifying. Have you taken the thing to a drag strip? I'd LOVE to see some videos of that, or even just a picture of your run sheet. Shit, have you got any videos of it even on the street? I bet it sounds nasty. How big is that exhaust, like 3' ID? Do you have any issues with boost creep?
Sorry I keep asking you a million questions....I'm just super curious about your build. This is where I'd love to get my car in a few years times. Just with some big fat tires on the front, and a roll cage ;D
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It's all good man I'm happy to talk about it, my wife's sick of hearing me go on about it haha 😂. I've only had it up and running for a few weeks and I have a 2 year old so I havnt had much time to get out in it, here in Australia they are super strict on what they will let go down the strip, they definitely won't like the dodgy fifth injector! They do roll racing here in Sydney, but the rules state convertibles need a roll cage. Keen to try! The quarter mile drags rules says convertibles can run without cage if under 12.5 second pass, but I will have to get the car up to scratch on a standalone ecu tuned properly with only 4 injectors 😂 before they will let me in the door.
I'll get some video posted somewhere in the next few weeks and I will post a link
Are you knee dep in snow at the moment?
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The turbo outlet is 3" but is flared out to 4" straight away for the 90 deg turn in the down pipe. I read the bigger pipe straight away after the turbo helps spool by having less pressure post turbine, after the 4" 90 deg turn its 3 inch all the way back with 3 resonators/ muffler things running up the centre of the car and dumped towards the ground just before the rear wheel, have a look at the pic, its loud as hell I'm gonna get my buddy who has an exhaust shop to get it up over the rear axle and put something on the end to shut it up. I live on a mountain and it's impossible to drive it up the hill quietly I also only ever have time in the evening to drive it so my neighbours must love me right now, hopefully can get a proper muffler on it soon!
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Oh I feel your pain, I have a 14 month old son and a wife who are also quite tired of listening to me drone on about my plans for the car. Should've seen the wifey's face when I told her I wanted to spend $120 on studs to attach the head to the block slightly better than what I already have. Hah. *sobs*
Anyways, bummer about how strict they are. I've definitely had some, shall we say 'questionable', cars down the tracks here in the States. But yeah, there's still about two feet of snow sitting on the ground here in New York, so zero chance of me being able to push my car back to the front yard. Even if I put the engine back together today, I'll probably have to wait another month before the weather allows me to get the car close enough to the engine to actually put them back together. Ah well.
I'm not sure what I'll be doing with my exhaust. There's minimal chance of being able to reuse the factory exhaust, it's in terrible shape. It's also tiny. The car is over 25 years old now, so I can get away without a catalytic converter. Technically, it's illegal to remove one if it came with one, but hey. I'm thinking I'll do 2.5" to 3" exhaust, with a little resonator around where the factory cat lived, and then a muffler down towards the rear axle. Still debating between having it dump before the axle, bending it and doing a side exhaust, or getting a muffler with two outputs and having a fake double exhaust, with one tip on each side of the rear. I do like the look of the latter, so that's probably how I'll end up doing it.
You know, once I have the thing running. As of now, open headers is cool. Just gonna be annoying listening to it for that first start up, waiting 20 minutes for the thermostat to open up. I'm SO sure the neighbors will appreciate it.
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Oh man! That dodgy 5th injector! I did that on my first capri many years ago, I cannot recommend it, the fuel does not get delivered evenly to the cylinders with our intake manifold design. It all goes to the outside cylinders - be very careful with that. Your AFRs will still read okay even though the two inside cylinders might be on the verge of melting.
When I eventually tore down the engine I was running the 5th injector setup on my two inside cylinders were aggressively pitted from detonation, the outside two were fine.
Looks like you're in the full standalone ECU territory with your setup, yes I could chip your ECU for a higher rev limit but with a turbo of that size and the power you could make the stock electronics and sensors are nothing but a restriction.
Can't believe you got that turbo to fit there! I've been meaning to pick up a B16 manifold for modifications but time is not on my side at the moment :) Good to hear the spacing is close enough to work. I have an N/A honda header kicking around my shop and the port spacing is indeed real close but the N/A header outlet is totally wrong for our engine/oil plan.
Great pics, lovely car - keep posting progress please!
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Hi Matt thanks for the advise about the dodgy injector! Just curious I remember reading about your injector, did you use one of the injector signal wires to pulse the injector? I dono if I'm remembering correctly but from memory you used no 4 injector wires to pulse it and the boost cut switch to trigger it? Am I correct?
Was just wondering if that may be why you were running lean on 2 and 3 if it was only pulsing in time with number 4? I may be remembering wrong.
I have mine set to turn on static wired directly to the battery and using a pressure switch triggering it at 20psi.
I should really go aftermarket ecu but my funds are not in good shape at the moment
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Interested to hear about this, I thought our cars batch fired the injectors.
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Interested to hear about this, I thought our cars batch fired the injectors.
That's an excellent point. I thought injectors 1 and 4 fire together, and 2 and 3 fire together. How'd you fit a fifth injector pulse in there? Is it just firing every time? Or only with the outer 2 cylinders? I guess if you are just trying to richen up the mixture to try and prevent melting everything with the gobs of air you're stuffing in there, you'd be firing the magic fifth injector every time?
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I don't have it pulsing it comes on static I have it wired directly to the battery and just turns on at 20psi, at 20spi the gt3076r is moving a huge amount of air and the injector just pumps the fuel in with no pulse
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No I had mine wired to the boost cut switch to come on at 100% duty cycle and yes I got away with it for a while, at least it seemed that way until I later pulled apart the motor to see the pistons. I learned about it from some old school turbo dodge website where they were using cold start injectors (a thing that briefly appeared in the 80s I think)
I decided to use a regular injector because that's what I had laying around.
Yes the stock injectors are batch fired.
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Aww man thats disappointing I should stop what I'm doing! I had big plans for the dodgy injector set up! I was gonna swap out the 4 380cc injectors for 550cc and put e85 in it and put one of the 380s as the 5th injector instead of the 300cc one I'm using now. E85 needs 30-50%more fuel so I figure is should still run about how it was.
Standalone it is! But need a decent clutch first!
BTW how did you trigger it at 100% duty cycle? Just curious? Thanks for the insight
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It is super sketchy with the 5th injector too, I really worry about the fuel line popping off the injector and spraying fuel everywhere as it dosent have a barb on it, I put a cable tie around the clamp pulling it towards the injector too but still makes me stress. I was also worried about the injector blowing out of the silicone t coupler but I guess it would loose pressure instantly and the pressure switch would turn it off. But yea dodgy as man not the goods. I also lost my key and am using a Screwdrier to start the car and if fuel did start leaking its not as easy as just turning off the key as I need to find the Screwdriver am fiddle around with the ignition. It's an accident waiting to happen, I'll take it out and turn the boost down until standalone ecu is in my possession...
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Yeah that sounds super sketchy. It can't be all that hard to get a key made, though. If you put a fuel pressure gauge in the cabin, at least you'd be able to see if that hose breaks free from the driver's seat.
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I had even thought of mounting a camera looking at the injector with a screen on the dash so I can see it at all times. I've also considered mounting a timing light and a camera on it so I can sus out exactly what the timing does at super high boost. I know there are weights that expand outwards as rpm increases, I think they advance the timing and when vacuum is applied it advances the timing and boost retards it. I think anyways but I really would like to record it whilst driving and see what happens in real time not just hope it's doing what it should be doing! I can probably get the rpm on the digital timing light in the shot too. If I can get a good grasp of exactly whats going on with the timing, I'm sure there are ways of tweaking it to my advantage. My dodgyness knows no bounds! Still all this could be achieved with a standalone + so much more
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As for the key I'm gonna get a new ignition barrel and key, it's $50. I lost the key 2 days after finishing the 8 month build, I was so pissed I searched my house top to bottom for 8 hours, then went outside in a rage with a tyre leaver at 2am and snapped the end off the ignition barrel. It's stuffed. It's scary how easy it was to do as well. It had some hardend seel security cap on the end couldn't get a Screwdrier in but it made it so easy to leaver off it and bust it off. Makes me think we should all be a bit worried for our baby's safety!
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If you check out the factory service manual at tech-capri there's a diagram of the timing advance for the XR2 distributor so you can get an idea of what it's supposed to be doing.
www.techcapri.com
Yes with a standalone ECU and proper hardware you can have programmable ignition timing and ditch the factory stuff.
And by 100% duty cycle I mean the injector is straight up powered on by the switch, no pulsing or anything like that.
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Thanks for that man, I dono why I thought you had the 5th injector triggered off the 4th, must have been something I read somewhere else, I will definitely stop what I'm doing and take it out, I only gave it a few pulls like that so I hope I haven't stuffed anything
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There is some good info on there man thanks for that, I've never seen that site before! I've read heaps on this site and the laser 323 site, I dono how I haven't found that before!
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Here is a video of it doing a 4th gear pull, I've taken out all the dodgy injector stuff and turned the boost down to 20ish psi. The clutch holds better at this power but still slips a little. It slipped alot at 30psi!
https://youtu.be/CtEr1i5g_zk
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3rd gear pull,
https://youtu.be/qQbj7ubNuIQ
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Hi can anyone chime in on this, I don't know if my gear ratios are different from what's listed in the link below showing xr2 gear ratios, looking at my dash recordings I'm not getting anywhere near the speeds shown on the link below. Maybe my clutch is slipping badly giving me poir speeds or is it possible I have a different box than an xr2. My car is an 89 ford capri turbo. No mention of xr2 anywhere on it. But I always thought it was the same. I dono if you guys in the us even got them in 89? I'm a bit puzzled if anyone has any thoughts I'm all ears!
http://teamcapri.com/forum/index.php?topic=1625.0
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Hey if you want, my transmission is literally sitting on the floor in front of my toolbox. Space is at a premium right now, but if you give me a couple days I can get a bunch of pictures of it for you to compare to. I'm fairy positive that in the USA, the Capri was only ever sold with a Mercury badge. The fact that you have no XR2 markings on the car might mean that it was a base model, but then again yours has a turbo. What was on there before you put the big boy on? If it was the IHI turbo, I'm pretty sure that's the factory one that came on the XR2's. Is it possible the previous owner had done a turbo swap on a base model Capri?
If you need me to open up the gearbox and count teeth on the 5th gear, let me know. Somewhere in that post you linked, I think I saw tooth counts. The only way you'll know for sure what you have is to open it up and look, I think.
Edit:
Holy crap! Does that page say that gear swap will give this thing a 165mph top speed?
Really?
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In the USA the XR2 was the turbo-only model. Australia got an XR2 but it was a trim package that did not specifically mean turbo.
We did not get them in 89, the USA was delayed by a year or two because Ford had to add airbags to meet US safety rules.
The 89/90 base model Capri in Australia had a SOHC engine & drum rear brakes too I think, we never got that here.
Regardless Ford/Mazda did not mate the B6T engine to anything other than a G series as far as im aware. Keep in mind those speeds are MPH not KPH
The gear ratios should be the same.
Watching your videos, the clutch does appear to be slipping a fair bit, and your AFRs are peaking into dangerously lean territory, you are hitting 13's man. Turn the boost doooown
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Yea it's getting into the 13s at real high rpm, I'll turn the boost down a bit more. I already turned it down 10psi!! hahah I'm missing my 5th injector :'( for the few seconds the clutch holds on at 30 psi it feels absolutely insane.!
Hey rocketman I was thinking about wet nitrous systems that use a fogger nozzle. Would they be a no go for our motors too because of the uneven fuel distribution through the manifold? I guess to do it without issue you would need 4 fogger nozzles in each runner of the intake.
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My car is definitely a 89 factroy turbo, I'm pretty sure its the same as the US xr2 but with no airbags and rhd. I guess the clutch is causing the low speeds. In 3rd gear I'm bearly tuuching 130 and from the info about the gears it should be doing about 150.
I'm looking at act, clutchmasters and spec, for a decent clutch for it. Ant advice on what clutch is going to do the best job?
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I have used 2 ACT clutches, one in the GTXR2 with the bigger 1.8 + turbo and one in a mostly stock XR2. The model is Z62-HDSS
Heavy Duty pressure plate + full face "super street" sprung disk. Heavy pedal but driveable in normal traffic if a bit touchy (I had both mine on Fidanza billet flywheels) and supposed to hold 400hp.
Spendy but you won't go wrong with it
I also had some eBay brand clutch way back in the day that was supposed to be a performance clutch, maybe I posted it here years ago but I don't recall the brand, it was maybe a bit tougher than a stock clutch. Doubt the brand is still around
I'd recommend staying away from multi-puck clutches and unsprung disks, I have driven Capris with them and they are basically on/off, there's no slipping for driveability. Not worth it IMO
For the amount you'd spend on nitrous you could get a standalone setup and have real turbo power on tap at all times. haha
Yes I'd thought about 4x fogger nozzles but at least when I looked the minimum shot size was 25hp/nozzle, and that's a 100hp shot. Add that with the intercooling effect of nitrous + boost and you're in for a wild ride I suspect
There are different intake manifolds out there that can be modified for fwd use, that might be better for fuel/nitrous distribution but there's a far better solution to your AFR problem
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I was just wondering about the nitrous distribution, prob not gonna do it at the moment anyway. I wasn't thinking about the afr ratios more about reducing lag. Maybe a small shot around 3000 rpm to 4500rpm and then let the turbo do its thing from there out and cut the nitrous. Could probably set it up with 2 pressure switches one to trigger it as boost starts and one to turn it off at say 18psi.
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That turbo is pretty big for a 1.6L
A "smaller" turbo would reduce spool time and still be very likely to hit your power goals
Modern turbos are amazingly efficient for their size, too
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I know I should have gone smaller, a gt2871 or 2876 would have been enough and much better suited to the motor, I was just worried I would still want more and the gt3076r gives me heaps of head room. I can't wait to get a stand alone ecu, I don't know how to wire it in but there is a guy here in Sydney that will alter my wiring harness and supply a microtech and bpt distributor for 700AUD around 550US Roughly. Im just broke as a joke at the moment and have regos to pay before I can think about getting it. Clutch isn't cheap either and they want about 100 to post it from 🇺🇸. It's driving me nuts not having cash to do it. Considering selling my van to fund this thing
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I was thinking about getting this, says its good for 500ft/lb
The Act clutch you mentioned says good for 379ft/lb
I really don't care bout drivability I want to send it to the moon and I will be so disappointed if it still slips.
I want it to run at least 30psi maybe 35 if itl get up there. 400-450hp, I might get the tough gears for 3rd and 4th plus the box brace plate thing. Or a shed load of spare gear boxes and just classify them as a consumable.
Any idea with the clutch in the link below if it needs any special flywheel or can it work with the stock one with a resurfaced face.
Thanks for all your help man sorry to bug you
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Spec-for-93-97-Ford-Probe-GT-2-5L-Stage-5-Clutch-Kit-specSZ155-/113541968418?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
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That's literally the exact opposite of what I would recommend, lol
Keep in mind the sprung disk will also act as a buffer against shock loads to the transmission. Which I would think is beneficial to the transmission
4-450hp from what I have seen you will be needing a new G series gearbox after every pull. Between the gears and the differential it's just not made for anything near that kind of power. Maybe I'm wrong. I've had one blow up on me merely pulling out of a parking lot - it had been abused by a previous owner doing burnouts.
Most of the Mazda guys running that kind of power had long switched to a Toyota transmission via an adapter plate.
Have a looksee here to see what some guys are doing for their builds: https://www.facebook.com/groups/803110999707450/
You get into the big power levels it's pay to play, haha. $$$$
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I've been watching a guy on youtube called stovall's Garage he did the Toyota swap in his escort, and I was thinking that would be the way to go but reading on here about it it sounds very hard to achieve in our bf chassis.
🤔 it seems I'm stuck between a rock and a blown gearbox
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I never did the Facebook thing, I can't see that page sorry man
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It's been done in the BF chassis before, the axles are the complicated bit as the combo they use on the Escort won't work in the BF
I don't blame you for not using facebook but that page is a literal goldmine for box conversions specifically for BF and BG mazdas, fwd and awd. Not just toyota boxes either, there are a fair number of mitsubishi evo boxes used as well
You could check out the forums on www.clubprotege.com there is a metric ton of gold info there from back in the day. I used to spend a lot of time there.
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Yeah I just signed up for club protege after trying to see one of the links someone posted on here about the 5th gear swaps. There's a ton of awesome ideas floating around on there if you look for them. Also, have you looked into an anti-lag setup for that giant turbo? You'll definitely need to figure out your tune so you aren't leaning out so much, but that could help you keep the thing in boost a bit. I don't know if anyone's ever needed one on a Capri before, but I can't imagine it'd be too hard to figure out.
I kind of think a smaller turbo might be the best option. At least until you can figure out a trans swap. If he's saying they won't handle that much power, I'd believe him. Transmissions get expensive quick.
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Anti lag would definitely help, I'll look into it in the future!
I know the g series dosent hold that much power but I imagine when I blow it they would be pretty cheap and plentiful. I'm gonna sign up to the protege site and check it out too, I'm keen to fo the Toyota swap. I have heard it will hold 800hp!
I really want to make big horsepower, my poser mate in his $100,000 audi rs3 has been talking some shit about our cars and that's one of the things that inspired me to build it and go for the moon, I wanna race him 100kph to 200kph and wipe that smug smile off his face. Maybe I'll paint it pink first too to really upset him. 😂
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I installed 560cc evo injectors with risistors last weekend, I had been told it wouldn't work but I wanted to see how bad it was and if there was any wizardry I could perform to make them work. I can make it idle ok but as soon as it's driven and throttle applied it bogged out and spluttered and had a ridiculously rich afr no matter how much I tweaked the air flow meter. The injectors I had in there were 360cc bpt injectors so 560cc is a big step up. Really not wanting to mess around swapping injector plugs to the round style to put the bpt injectors back in, Ifigured I would try it on e85 as the injectors are around 35% bigger than what I was running and e85 needs around 35% more fuel to run properly. I drained as much petrol as I could and put 40Lof e85 in it and straight away it became drivable! It's a bit richer than it was on 360cc injectors on petrol, though not ridiculously rich. With the afrs being different for e85 and petrol I was unsure what afr I wanted to see on the gauge but after doing some reading I found the sensors measure lamba values and express them as afr values on the gauge and the lamda values for petrol and e85 are very similar so I still tune for petrol afrs on my gauge example (14.7 on guage is really 9.7 afr when running e85) but still tune for petrol afrs and it's where it needs to be. A bit confusing and I did a crap job of explaining it sorry!
I have only given it a quick second gear pull and wasn't able to look at afrs but it felt very promising! Seemed to spool faster and I have all the advantages of e85, heat absorbsion, 107 octane rating can probably give it heaps more spark advancement, more boost if I have more fuel up top, I haven't sussed it out yet but I guess it will have lover afrs than before.
I'll keep you all posted, I'm doing this at the moment because I have no money and probably won't have any spare for a while for a standalone the evo injectors were 7 bucks each and in my budget
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Can the factory ecm tell that there are bigger injectors, or compensate for them? Or are you spraying the same amount of fuel, at a much lower duty cycle? Also, how can you use E85 without a flex fuel sensor? Is that safe?
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Wow.....that's crazy!
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The ecu dosent compensate not when its in open loop. At idle in closed loop it does. It is spraying the same amount as stock with same duty cycle, it's rich across the whole rpm range untill heaps of boost is paired with it, no flex fuel sensor the ecu thinks its all stock injectors on petrol. I can't go full throttle at low rpm with out the afrs dropping to 10/1 so I modulate the throttle till at higher rpm then plant my foot. As for safety I'm not sure, bore wash is my main concern. Though before my rebuild I had ran 10/1 afr and the 30 year old bores still looked OK.
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Sorry when I said it's spraying as much as stock at the same duty cycle, I ment to say it's got a chipped stock ecu, (not a rocket chip it says fueltronic on the chip) I dono how this compares to the rocket chip) so I guess it has more duty cycle than a stock ecu and the same fuel pressure as a stock car. The only reason it runs on the 560cc injectors is because e85 needs way more fuel around 35% and coincidentally the injectors I got are 35% bigger. In theory it should run similar to how it ran on 360cc injectors on 98 petrol. 98 is our premium here our octane ratings are different to the USA, just to extra complicate what I'm trying to explain 😂
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By the way guys this is me experimenting, no one has told me to do this or that it will be ok. I take responsibility for any damage that may occur to my motor and I'm not recommending any one to try this, I'm just letting you all know what I've been up to. Take from it what you will and any comments or advice are appreciated.
Dave Robbo
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I mean if you are running super rich, now sounds like the correct time for a big shot of nitrous, no? Gotta add some oxygen somehow.... ;D ;D
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Ha I wish I had the cash for it! I really need to get a standalone and a tune.
Rocketman, is there any way you could remove duty from the injectors below 5000rpm and up it for me after 5500 + take the rev I limiter up a bit while we are at it? How much would you charge? If it's possible that is. Would you need the whole ecu or just the chip?
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Hey guys could you have a look at this ecu for me and tell me what you think? Would it be suitable and easy enough to install? Also what coils would you recommend I use? I'm not very confident in installing it though with your help hopefully I can make it work! It's what I need for the car, I should stop messing around trying to tweak the stock setup
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https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Megasquirt-2-ECU-with-knock-control-/294030925994?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
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What are you going to do for crank trigger? Miata CAS? That diagram shows it is setup for a VR sensor, the miata CAS is optical I think, the MS needs setup different for that.
I'm not sure what coils the B6/ BP guys use, I think they usually use Toyota COPs with a custom mount plate
You'll need to talk to the MS builder to get the finer details on what crank trigger, coils, sensors etc are needed for the way he builds that unit
The price seems very reasonable for that unit though
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Custom megasquirt 2. For 4 (5,6,8) cylinder engine. Fully operable. VR sensor input (NCV1124) or hall sensor.
Is a hall sensor what the CAS from a miata use?
I just mailed he guy and asked a few questions too, I'll ost up here so you guys can see when he replies.
Thanks for he help
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Is the crank trigger the CAS or do I need a crank trigger sensor as well? . Thanks for the help, I'm way better with the mechanical side of things than the electrical!
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This is what I asked.
Hi I would like to run this ecu on my mazda b6t motor, can you advise me if I use a cam angle sensor from a 1.6 L miata will it work? And could you be able to advise me on what coil set up to use for it. The car is a Ford Capri with a Mazda B6t engine it rus a distributor from the factroy, though the 1.6 miata CAS fits in its place. Thank you for any help you can provide me. Regards David
Reply
Hello. Yes it will work. But you have to disassemble the distributor and see how many holes there are on the trigger disk. If there are 4 holes then you will have to use the factory coil. To use a dual coil, you need to install a pulley trigger and a crankshaft sensor.
Regards, Andrew.
It's still over my head rocket can you give this to me in super layman's terms.
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The single VR sensor input is for something like a 36-1 trigger wheel. It has 36 teeth, with one missing. The ecu sees a pulse every 10° and when it sees the 20° gap it knows it is at TDC, so it starts a new cycle.
Let's ignore our stock distributor, there's literally no reason to keep it, let's assume you use the Miata CAS (cam angle sensor) It bolts right in place of the stock distributor.
It has a 4/2 trigger wheel. A two tooth wheel gives a signal at TDC, starting the cycle (I believe one pulse is longer than the other). The 4 tooth wheel gives pulses every 90° aligning with each cylinder's firing.
It's much lower resolution but for running batch fire it's fine, you may be able to do sequential injection/ignition with it.
These signals are called CMP and CMK and require two separate input lines into the MS unit instead of one. It has to be configured for the two inputs at the circuit level.
You can tell your ECU builder that you will use the 4G63/miata CAS as the trigger.
This stuff is the heart of the ECU, I would recommend a pile of reading on how the Megasquirt works and relies on the sensors. There is a plethora of documentation, specifically for the 1.6L Miata that will be helpful. Here's a start:https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/install/mazda/megasquirt-your-miata/
You can use the stock Miata coils but the COPs would be a little better, read the warnings on the page about the stock miata coils.
The settings/configurations on that page are necessary, you will probably have to configure it yourself when you get it
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Found a great page with info on the Miata CAS:
http://www.rivercityroad.com/garage/cas.htm
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Hey Aus, I'm also in the same position as you. I really, really want to get Megasquirt (or Microsquirt) running on my car, but it's a TON of information to digest, and it's intimidating. I've been emailing back and forth with an old friend I used to run rally cross with, who has his old Escort running on MS3. I've been picking his brain and trying to figure out specifics. One of these days when I've got the time, I'm going to write up everything that seems pertinent, post it to the DIY Auto Tune forums, and let those guys pick it apart and correct it all. Once they're done, I should have a good idea of how to go about installing the Megasquirt.
At that point, I'll post parts lists, instructions, and pictures over here. As well as the results once I'm all done.
If you're going to go ahead and try to get it to work, I definitely suggest reading as much as you can on the thing. It's not complicated per se, but there is a lot going on and you'll need to understand it if you want to get the full potential out of it. There's all kinds of goodies you can do with it up an running. No lift shift, anti-lag, launch control, sequential injection, etc. Even just being able to datalog will be huge, especially for you running that giant turbo. On that note, there's also really good knock control and mitigation functionality in Tuner Studio.
If you buy this, keep us posted on how the install and setup goes. I'd love to see someone have it working in their Capri before I jump into it.
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Hi guys here's an update on my e85 experimentation. After a few test drives with the e85 and 560cc evo injectors, I found it to run very similar to how it ran before on premium petrol with 360cc BPT injectors. It's a little bit more rich in the lower rpm but leans out at around the same boost as before at around 17 - 18 psi. It's a shame it leans out there because once it hits around 22psi it's in its element and is a totally different car but 13-1afrs! So its a no no. I locked the boost in at 18psi and gave it some pulls and it's good but after feeling it pull at 30psi when I ran the dodgy injector it feels lacking, don't get me wrong at 18psi on this monster turbo it does go hard but at 30psi on this monster turbo its absolutely insane (in a good way) I'm only guessing here but it feels like at least another 100-150hp going from 18psi to 30psi.
I don't know what to do, i'm not confident in my ability to install a stand alone my self and can't afford7 to pay some one to do it. It will cost heaps here in Aus, every bloody thing seems to cost more here! I'm not even confident I'll order one that's compatible 😂. I know a guy here in Sydney that can alter my wiring harness to take a microtech though I have read it will only offer fuel tables up to 20psi and I want to run 30ish so it's probably not a great option, it's also gonna cost me $700 for the ecu and harness and it's a second hand old basic unit no knock control and it will still use a distributor (BPT dizzy or welded b6t dizzy) He says it's the only ecu he knows how to wire into our harness.
I'm so disappointed about the uneven fuel distribution of the dodgy 5th injector, I was considering mounting 4 more injectors into the intake manifold one on each runner to work around the problem but it would be a bit ridiculous.
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Hey Rocket man when you were running the dodgy injector set up do you know what your AFR's were getting ? As you said before about running lean on cylinder 2 and 3 but still having an acceptable Afr as its an average of all four cylinders. Do you think I could get away with it by targeting a rich afr say 10-1, I know its still gonna be uneven but safer?
Here's my thinking, if AFR's average out at 12-1 across all 4 cylinders. Cylinders 1 and 4 may be 11-1 and Cylinders 3and 4 may be 13-1. Then say I target an average Afr of 10-1, Cylinder 1 and 4 may be 9-1 and cylinder 3 and 4 may be 11-1 obviously not correct values just trying to visualise the difference in afr across the 4 cylinders
I need 4 widebands! I'd love to know the difference in afrs!
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Couldn't you just toss higher flow injectors on there? Theoretically, the ecu would run them at the same duty cycle as the factory ones, right? That'd give you more flow across the whole rev range, if it worked that way. Or would that make you too rich at low boost? Then again, I'd much rather be too rich than too lean.
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That's what I was hoping to achieve with the 560cc injectors but it was way to rich at low rpm on straight petrol, runs ok on e85 but works out to only support roughly the same amount of power as the 360cc injectors, due to the lower energy content of e85
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What if you installed a fuel pressure regulator that is boost referenced? That way you could increase the pressure going to the injectors as the amount of boost increases? I've never tried using one on a car with a factory computer that I wasn't able to tune, but it might be a decent enough band-aid solution? They are significantly cheaper, and way easier to install, than a full stand-alone.
Edit:
Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Hypertune-Adjustable-Pressure-Regulator-Reference/dp/B08MZRT2K5/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3I9L2OK45XWCL&dchild=1&keywords=boost%2Breference%2Bfuel%2Bpressure%2Bregulator&qid=1621603756&sprefix=boost%2Breferenced%2Bfuel%2Bpre%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-8&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Hypertune-Adjustable-Pressure-Regulator-Reference/dp/B08MZRT2K5/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3I9L2OK45XWCL&dchild=1&keywords=boost%2Breference%2Bfuel%2Bpressure%2Bregulator&qid=1621603756&sprefix=boost%2Breferenced%2Bfuel%2Bpre%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-8&th=1)
It's got a vacuum port that you can hook up to a boost source, so for every psi of boost it sees, it raises fuel pressure by 1 psi. It's definitely not an elegant solution, but it'll at least make you LESS lean at high boost.
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I'm pretty sure the sock fuel regulator will raise 1-1 already, if I used a FMU like a vortec with a higher rise rate than 1 to 1 maybe, you can change the springs in them and adjust the rise rate up to 12pounds of fuel for every 1 pound of boost. OBX sells a cheaper version too
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dude, you've got a nice motor, do the right thing
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Hi guys here's what I've been up to, I know rocketman told me to do this properly but I am not confident installing a standalone ecu and I really can't afford to pay someone to install one and tune it so I have proceded to try and find a work around for turning up the boost.
I have removed the e85 and have switched the fuel back to premium petrol. I got an adjustable FMU which can adjust the base pressure and has a bleeder valve on the top which adjusts the rise rate.
Here's a link to the FMU,
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/10-100-PSI-Billet-adjustable-FMU-Blue-/184870547891?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
The way the rise rate is affected is if the bleeder valve fully open its a 1-1 rise rate. Fully closed it is a 14-1 rise rate. I have modified the way the FMU bleeds air off by changing it to have 2 bleeder valves and have installed solinoid valve triggered by a pressure switch to isolate one of them after 20psi. This allows different rise rates to be used at different boost levels. I still have the 560cc injectors in the car and now a base pressure of 25psi, it has a rise rate of around 1—1 up to 20psi which brings the fuel pressure up to about 50psi. As the boost triggers the pressure switch to isolate one of the bleed screws at just after 20psi of boost, the rise rate changes and the fuel pressure jumps up to around 70psi at 21psi and then up to around 85psi fuel pressure at 30psi of boost.
You may have to read that a few times to get your head around it! I'll post a vid demonstrating how it works tomorrow.
The stock fuel pressure regulator has a rise rate of 1—1 and a base fuel pressure of around 40psi. When I apply 30psi of boost to the stock pressure reg the fuel pressure jumped to 70psi.
Installing this fmu has allowed me to run the bigger injectors on petrol with out bogging and spluttering at low rpm by lowering the base pressure to 25psi, and to fully take advantage of the 560cc injectors in the higher rpm. It basically makes the car run how it did on 360cc injectors up to 20psi of boost then after 20psi of boost they become the bigger 560cc injectors and delivering a slightly higher than usual fuel pressure!
It's still in the testing stages and I haven't had time test it more than once, but it seems to be working. I'll take some vids to show you all how it works tomorrow and try get some vids of driving soon too! Hope your all good great to see Shepherds build, coming along!
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https://youtu.be/rzDsMyWMOH0
Here is a quick video of a third gear pull with the experimental 2 stage fmu. It runs lean around 20psi then you can see the switch and it runs rich to 30psi at redline and bashes the redline a bit. I'd love to know how much power this is making at the moment! It feels really dodgy though, in the vid you can see I'm fighting it to try and keep it in a straight line.
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Hey guys I have removed the above linked video from YouTube as I was getting paranoid it may get me into trouble. Australia has a national max speed limit at 110kph and I was going a bit faster than that 😂.
I took the car out tonight and gave it its first good 4th gaer pulls on the freeway. 32psi and Afr's around 11 to 11.4. It feels like a giant shot of nos after 20psi it feels awesome!
The clutch is letting it down though, sometimes it holds to redline but a lot of the time it's slipping badly after 20psi and to wind the gear out I need to hit the limiter a few times.
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Hey guys I have removed the above linked video from YouTube as I was getting paranoid it may get me into trouble. Australia has a national max speed limit at 110kph and I was going a bit faster than that 😂.
I took the car out tonight and gave it its first good 4th gaer pulls on the freeway. 32psi and Afr's around 11 to 11.4. It feels like a giant shot of nos after 20psi it feels awesome!
The clutch is letting it down though, sometimes it holds to redline but a lot of the time it's slipping badly after 20psi and to wind the gear out I need to hit the limiter a few times.
Sounds like you've got it close to dialed in. Close enough to not be too worried about melting your pistons at least.
Wish you were closer then Australia, I'd loveeeee to go for a ride-along in that thing. Must be an absolute beast.