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Author Topic: Head bolts  (Read 2134 times)

SHOwn

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    • 91 XR2
Head bolts
« on: December 19, 2016, 11:37:56 AM »

Quick question. Can we reuse head bolts or do we have to buy new ones? I did my Ranger 2.5L a few years ago and it was a must-have on the new bolts.

I'm leaking oil from the head somewhere and I suspect it could be the gasket, but no oil in coolant or vise versa. Runs perfect, seems like there is oil cap pressure even with a breather.

If new bolts are required, where are they available? Rock Auto doesn't seem to show them.

Any help appreciated - I'm thinking about tearing into it next week.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

WashiestSnake

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 12:16:09 PM »

You can reuse bolts but its not recommended. To get new bolts you need to ask for 89-94 Miata Arp Headstuds.  ARP hardware is 50 and is reusable unlike the fsctory bolts.  I know Matt has used his set atleast twice.
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

azgtx

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2016, 06:37:02 PM »

Head studs for sure. If you want you can go to a Kia dealer and get the oem bolts for a 95 Sephia 1.8L. I have done that and saved some money but they are still torque to yield bolts.
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SHOwn

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2016, 08:30:56 PM »

Thanks guys. I took it to the shop today and they puta dye in the oil and  told me that the pan and the crank seal are ok after all. The head gasket is leaking down to the lip of the oil pan (lowest point) under the crank pully and it doesn't seem to be coming from there. I replaced the crank seal and the oil pan gasket twice in the last 6 weeks trying to fix it, but I couldn't see what they did (not sure how they could locate the trail with all the stuff bolted to it).

I have to believe it though, I kept cleaning the block and I would find a wet ring slowly decending from the bottom of the head. It was not a lot, but it returned quickly after cleaning it. I also found a small coolant puddle in the trans webbing that keeps recourring when I soak it up, but the surge tank and radiator hardly show a loss. I wonder if that isn't a hose connection though.

Absolutely no oil in antifreeze or antifreeze in the oil though, and it runs perfectly.

So, I take it that these are what I need...
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/arp-218-4701/none/images
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

WashiestSnake

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2016, 07:41:33 AM »

Those look to be it! 
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

SHOwn

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    • 91 XR2
Re: Head bolts
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2016, 09:34:40 AM »

Thanks for the confirmation. I might do this next week,  but I'll probably park it until spring and work on it then. It's my daily driver and I need the garage due to the snowfall we usually get, so I'll put it in my dad's garage until spring and bring it home for the fix.
I'll have to find a good winter car pretty quick to go that route though.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

WashiestSnake

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2016, 07:18:59 PM »

These should help iron out a oil leak. They wont ever warp unless you have like insane amounts of horsepower ie 700+. I would guess your leak is probably due to headlift so that should stop with these.
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

Rocketman

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2016, 10:23:11 PM »

You can try re-torquing the existing head bolts in the meantime as an interim fix
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1.8L Turbo All Wheel Drive Capri... the "GTXR2"


SHOwn

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    • 91 XR2
Re: Head bolts
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 08:51:53 PM »

Update:

It's been awhile, here's where I'm at now. I kept running her 50 miles a day all winter, but retourqued the head bolts back in February. If anything she leaked a little worse after that. I couldn't find a cheap drive-able car I'd want to fix and flip, so I put this problem off until now.
So I went out today and pulled the plugs and did a compression test so I could come to a decision. I've been finding that when I start her after more than 4 hours there is some cam ticking that clears up in about 5 seconds. I believe the stem seals are bad and I'm losing enough oil down into cylinders to cause this (sometimes it misfires with the cam clatter).

So I'm checking into having a local machine shop rebuild the head, possibly re-ring the cylinders as well, depending on some analysis of the compression and the ensuing tear-down. So here are the results:
Working left to right and trying to stick to the FSM procedure closely...
Engine warmed up, throttle wide open, all plugs out, approximately 10 rotations.
CYL 1 145
CYL 2 144
CYL 3 133
CYL 4 110

According to the FSM, that fits within the passing category, (by 1 PSI)

Thoughts?

I'm not sure about sending the block in for cylinder work, but I definately want the head redone.

Boy she runs good though, I'm just tired of feeding her oil.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

chrispoe

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    • 91 BP Capri GT
Re: Head bolts
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 11:53:09 AM »

You can tell if you have leaking valve seals when you first start the car and see a bunch of whitish/blue smoke out the exhaust.

It sounds to me like the leaking head gasket is causing the head to lose oil prime after it sits for a while. IMHO... would explain the initial hydraulic lifter tick/misfire when you first start the engine.

Hmmm.... cylinder 4 does seem a little low. I would redo the test on 4, then I would put about a table spoon of oil down the spark plug hole and retest. If you see the numbers go from 110 to 140+ then that would be an indication piston ring issue.
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SHOwn

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 01:32:26 PM »

Thanks Chris, I value your expertise. I don't see the smoke on startup (my 95 SHO was good at that smoking on startup) but here are two pieces of the puzzle I left out.
1. I did follow up the CYL 4 (driver's side) test with a final try which included 10 drops of pneumatic tool oil and that raised it to 120 PSI
2. That CYL 4 is where I struggled to effectively tighten the last head bolt in February. I brought the others up to about 65 ft-lbs but the bolt closest to the dizzy was either stripping or yielding (hope it was yielding) so I was scared to push it until my wrench clicked and so I gave up after about 3 short swings.

So I'm leaning toward your idea about leaking out. I have to keep a catch pan under it nightly.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2017, 07:05:01 AM »

Ok, after further review, it looks like I only need do the head work. A hot engine compression test came up with 146, 144, 135, 145 Psi. Now on to the parts...

Cometic head gasket with ARP head studs for Miata 1.6 ,
Should I do this or just buy them individually, selecting the 323 head gasket instead?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMETIC-1990-1993-MAZDA-MIATA-1-6L-DOHC-040-1MM-HEAD-GASKET-ARP-STUD-KIT-COMBO-/252429371217?hash=item3ac5f68751:g:RIAAAOSwwPhWjIXG&vxp=mtr

Anyone got experience with selecting one of these? Seems like FlyinMiata shows them with several thicknesses and I even think they might be available in several bores. Does it matter if the fitment is shown as for Mazda Miata or 323, or b6? I have a hybrid vj11/vj14 setup and want the best seal even though I won't be pushing more than 10 or 11 lbs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cometic-Gasket-C4122-051-0-051-MLS-Head-Gasket-/302172077691?fits=Year%3A1988%7CMake%3AMazda%7CModel%3A323%7CSubmodel%3AGTX%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A1.6L&hash=item465adbfe7b:g:kmAAAOSwux5YWXm-&vxp=mtr


https://www.flyinmiata.com/1-6-cometic-head-gasket.html


Wish I had seen this the last time I had the oil pan off!
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/cgt-c4785
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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    • 91 XR2
Re: Head bolts
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 11:41:41 PM »

Alright, finally got around do to it and tore the head off. It does look like I had an oil leak right where the mechanic said his dye was coming out, the oil passage on the front side of the head, passenger side, closest to the exhaust sprocket.




So I pulled the head and sent it to the machine shop for a refresh. Valve stem seals, cleaning, and a check on the if it was warped. They found a very slight warp, .004, and milled the head until flat.










So I got the engine all back together, Cometic head gasket and ARP head studs, it went fairly well, had a little trouble with a bad intake stud, and one bad exhaust stud pulling out when tightening the exhaust manifold, but it isn't leaking, so I'm ok with it right now.

I have a worse problem. It isn't running right. I started her back up and she sounds bad. Almost like it's missing, with tons of valve clatter (lifter noise). I checked timing and it was not bad, set at TDC, so I followed the sticker on the underside of the hood and pulled the advance vacuum hose, plugged it and put my light on it. I set it at 12 deg BTDC and shut it off and put the vacuum back on. Restarted her, no different. In fact, she stayed at about 12 deg BTDC (not much vac on that advance hose at idle).

I'm scratching my head - not the car's. Maybe timing is off? I'm an old bodyman, not a mechanic. Maybe the shop messed up on the lifters? I pulled each plug wire to see if it was firing on all and it is, it loses a lot for each one I pull. I don't know what to do. Pull the belt side apart again and check all the marks? This is the first time I used the TDC mark on the little gauge on the timing cover, every other time I had the harmonic balancer and main pulley off and used the TDC mark on the oil pump. Maybe I screwed this up or could a lifter be stuck? And if so, why? Help!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 01:01:44 PM by SHOwn »
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

rls120

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    • 1991 Mercury Capri xr2, 1994 Wrangler, 1994 Saab
Re: Head bolts
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2017, 12:49:31 PM »

I don't know what to tell you about the miss, but your 'lifter noise' sounds like you aren't getting any oil up to the cams/valves (there are no lifters on this engine).  Have you run it very long?  Sometimes it takes a few minutes to get oil up to the top of the engine after a teardown.  You might want to pull the cover and see if its dry in there. . . .  It could also be that you've got a blocked oil passage someplace.
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azgtx

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Re: Head bolts
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2017, 10:57:33 PM »

Double check the timing gears and make sure they are right. Also, the HLA's (hydraulic lash adjusters) what you are calling lifters, very well could be clogged. You can take them apart and soak in mineral spirits to get them clean. Put them back together and then let soak them in oil and pump them up a bit then leave them in the oil until you are ready to put them back in. When they are right they will have some resistance when compressed. You don't want them real springy.
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