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Author Topic: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question  (Read 10230 times)

SHOwn

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Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« on: October 01, 2016, 11:29:22 PM »

Hi guys. I finally have the Capri apart in the garage and the whole exhaust side apart. there was oil everywhere and the axial shaft play on the turbo shaft was almost 1/4". I took about a half-pint out of the intercooler. I almost thought the head gasket was leaking there was so much oil on the front of the engine, however, it turned out to be the housings on the turbo were leaking all over as well as putting oil into the exhaust.

I am putting together the IHI VJ11/VJ14 hybrid right now and have a question. I'm going to use the ultra copper high temp gasket maker for the aluminum housing to CHRA, but should I use any on the exhaust housing to CHRA? I can't tell if any was on the old turbo's I have to examine.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

Rocketman

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2016, 12:03:34 PM »

I dont think there is anything to seal the CHRA into the turbine housing - it's a pretty tight fit
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SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2016, 12:41:27 PM »

Thanks Rocket! I was thinking that, but not sure. I saw the permatex on the compressor housing so I figured that out. I'm thinking to cool the CHRA in the freezer before I put it together with the he turbine housing because the fit is quite tight, but it does start into the bore. I had to drill out a broken bolt into the turbine housing and chase out the threads so I'm a little concerned about drawing the CHRA into the bore with those questionable threads.

I'm taking lots of pix and plan to document the whole thing on a post you can tie to the treatise.
Lots of tips to note like carefully bending the bypass tube bracket so you can get the manifold off, or starting the two compressor bolts that won't fit before assembly so the bolts can fit between the fitting castings and the compressor housing.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

WashiestSnake

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2016, 03:14:50 PM »

Id love to see a write up on this!
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 12:55:39 PM »

I'll try to post a play by play once I am done and the grease is off of my fingers!

Turbo is back in but everything isn't buttoned up yet. I'm in the process of fabricating the coolant lines for the vj11. I can do several things with the 4AN and push-on fittings that the XI Turbo coolant line kit provided, but I'm not crazy about the braided stiff lines putting lateral pressure on the rubber stub outs coming off of the factory push on coolant lines (bypass tube port and engine block fitting). I have an idea for stiffening the bypass tube turbo feed rubber line, but it's the engine block push-on coolant feed that is troublesome. The length of the stock spout along with the length of the push-on barbs for the AN braided section makes a stub-out so long that I can't avoid the compressor inlet.

I tried taking the engine block fitting out and threading the 4AN male in the block, but they are close but not compatible. Does anyone know what the engine block turbo coolant spout fitting thread size is? I put it back on, but while I'm at work I'm thinking of checking a place like Fastenall or a hydraulic place for a direct male tap in to the hole in the block with a male 4AN sticking out. Then I can use one of the provided elbows to turn 90 down to avoid the compressor inlet. Otherwise, I'll resort to the 2.5l Ranger coolant bypass hose solution I'm dreaming up.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2016, 12:50:52 PM »

Quick report and question about operation. I got it all done and have driven it two days now. I gave it about 1/3rd peddle yesterday and saw 5 lbs on the gage but I was taking it easy since I didn't have all the hoses secured yet. Now this morning with the lines secured, I went a little harder on the throttle and also saw 5 lbs on the gage for a little longer time in the gas, but the car misfired when under the boost for more than about 3 seconds sustained boost.

I'm not too sure that the gage is very accurate, it's original and I've never seen more than 7lbs before in cold weather. About 2 years ago, on a 5 degree morning I was passing someone and the boost limiter and warning went off due to the 2-1/2" exhaust system. I heard an audible alarm and the ignition cut out. This time, I have the vj11 and a 13/16" waste gate so I'm surprised that it is missing like that. I don't think it is the computer cutting out the ignition because I hear no alarm.

I had put in NGK G-Power plugs last year but gapped them somewhere between spec and the advice of turbo tuners (.027 I think). Should I test with a stock gap (.039" IIRC)? Could this be leaning out? Should I go get an aftermarket boost gage? Could this be due to the gap, lean or boost creep? I thought the boost creep would go away with the oversized waste gate.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

Rocketman

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2016, 08:20:24 PM »

Interesting with the misfiring issue. I'd try a stock gap and see how that works - I know running high boost on a stock gap can cause a misfire due to "blowing out" the spark

Definitely get an aftermarket gauge!
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SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2016, 08:44:00 PM »

Thanks Matt. I'll try the plugs and get a gauge. I ran by a slow truck on a two lane today on the way home and had no issue doing 5 lbs for a few seconds and it was still rising when I let off. I still only used about half-pedal. This morning my missing occurred up a moderate hill. Wonder how torque load factored in. I'll have to try a longer pull at more throttle on a flat section and see if it misses.

Meanwhile, I'll check that gap.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 11:22:24 PM »

Ok, I checked the gaps and I had set them to .023" Yikes!. So I went much closer to stock at .035" I found that the air cleaner was unable to show a light bulb through it so I replaced that with a good used one I had off the NA I stripped. So I took it to work again this morning but it was raining so I didn't get into the throttle on my way in. It stopped raining pretty much on the way home so I gave it about half throttle on this short hill and once again, she coughed after reaching about 6 on the stock boost gauge. Then this evening I ran down to a church we are starting at a rescue mission and on the way home I thought I'd test it when getting on a 4 lane. This time with maybe 3/4 throttle it went from no  boost to overboost (only showing maybe 7lbs) in half a second and the warning went off and the cutout kicked in. It was definitely different than the missing I'm experiencing.

So, what am I doing wrong?  Ported wastegate, 2-1/2" exhaust from the catalyst back, vj11 hybrid, NGK G-Power plugs. I'm not sure what it needs. I will try a new fuel filter, it is probably 40,000 old. I'll get a boost gauge next, but then what? I'm assuming that the overboost warning tonight means it is hitting around 9 or 10. Should I consider a boost controller? and what about the missing? It reminds me of how my 65 Malibu SS with a cracked Corvette intake would backfire under torque (probably too lean). The Capri missing is coming after slow boost accumulation (3 or 4 seconds constant).

Really could use a good tuner in the area. I've always been much more comfortable restoring bodies than fixing mechanical stuff.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2016, 09:14:45 PM »

You know, I'm starting to wonder if I did the job right. Matt mentions having to rework the waste gate actuator mounting (IIRC), but my original actuator seemed to fit correctly and the compressor housings were almost identical in their dimensions. The CHRA was also virtually the same except the coolant line taps. My waste gate fit good and opened. The biggest differences I saw were the tap holes on bosses on the drivers side face of the compressor housing which are for heat shields and brackets for stock coolant pipes.

Was I reading something wrong?

Ill have to get that boost gauge tomorrow and get some pix posted soon, but I haven't had luck posting pictures to this site. I'll read up again.

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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

azgtx

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2016, 10:01:48 PM »

Well you have done most of the things regarding upgrading the B6t except the important stuff in this order..#1 a Rocket chip, #2 a good boost gauge and #3 a boost controller either a bleed type that you can set using #2 the good boost gauge or an electronic unit. You will not be able to use any of the stuff you have done ie: big exhaust and bigger compressor until you do. Any time you put right foot into it you are just going to hit the fuel cut. I would also say you need to open up the inlet air since you have opened up the outlet air. The oem wastegate actuator opens around 8psi. You should have put some air to it after you put the thing together to make sure it was not binding.
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SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2016, 02:39:21 PM »


Ok, I could use some ideas for a shopping list.

What kind of boost controller?  Something like this?

http://www.protuninglab.com/maadtutuboby3.html?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=56128534817

Is there a need for an air to fuel meter?

Should I go for an intercooler kit like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-x12-PCS-PIPING-KIT-COUPLER-T-BOLT-CLAMPS-TURBO-FRONT-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER/230946131481?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dcee9a879bd6d411da55a302f51d744e6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D231239174450

Any suggestions on a gauge?  I've often contemplated cutting the instrument panel and putting a mini boost gauge right where the stock one is.

I know to get the chip from Rocket.

Any suggestions on how to redo the air cleaner?

Is it imperitave to get rid of the stock catalyst and downpipe and go with a free flow one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121410508261?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1588%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D145794914075_324272%2526itemid%253D121410508261%2526targetid%253D259575312856%2526rpc%253D0.17%2526rpc_upld_id%253D83251%2526device%253Dt%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F121410508261%25253Flpid%25253D82%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9017469%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D672706245%2526adgroupid%253D42643138948%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-259575312856%2526gclid%253DCj0KEQjw1ee_BRD3hK6x993YzeoBEiQA5RH_BJk-W7DZUGqg0sLX28ES0Vb7Gf3nLTtesvjTv-eFqnMaAspJ8P8HAQ%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1107114266528&ul_noapp=true

Guess I'd have to have the downpipe fabricated if I did that.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

azgtx

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2016, 12:38:31 AM »

Guys use those bleed type controllers. I have used the HKS controllers that were kits for the GTX and I have Profec EBC's that are more precise but much more spendy. You don't need to change your intercooler just yet until you get the above mentioned things done and the car putting that s hit a ss grin on your face. As for the air cleaner, I don't like the cones or the foam types. After I tore down a motor that used those it really changed my mind. Use the stock air box and use a hole saw to open it up a bit and stay with the oem type panel filters. You can buy a K&N for this and the BF323 application if you prefer. A high flow cat will not hurt you one bit either. Try and get one of Matts J pipe kits, that will help a bunch.
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SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2016, 05:57:42 AM »

Thanks AZ. I need all the info I can get. I'll look closer at this tonight or tomorrow. I have a 600 mile drive today and I opted for the trusty van because the XR2 is probably not fit for the mountains until the boost issues are ironed out. She drives beautifully with more noticeable torque when keeping it below 1/3rd pedal, but I believe it might be leaning out when I experience a miss under boost.

Too bad, me and the Mrs will miss the convertible in the Great Smokies National park.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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Re: Quick Turbo CHRA Installation Question
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2016, 03:06:12 AM »

We'll, it's 2:30am and I got the exhaust manifold off without pulling the radiator. I see that the waste gate actuator is indeed bound up somewhat. I put about 10 lbs into it and it moved the bellcrank about 7 degrees or so, sometimes, sometimes not, and it hangs a little on the return sometimes.

I have 2 questions I need answers for tomorrow. First, should the wastegate be held shut by the spring action when tightening the bracket to the compressor? At rest the flange is about 1/4" shy of mating with the compressor housing and the 3 bolts draw the bracket flush with the compressor housing and compress the inner spring when they mate. Is the wastegate supposed to be held that tightly at rest? I kinda think so, but I'm checking cause I don't want to pull this thing off again!

Secondly, these metal gaskets- I got new ones for the exhaust to head and dump pipe to manifold when I assembled this thing 3 weeks ago and I wonder if I can reuse them? I couldn't get the dump pipe to downpipe gasket at the time so I reused that old bent one and it worked fine. I would think these 3 week old ones will seal up fine as well. Any thoughts on that?

While I have it apart I have to put a crank seal on it, or maybe a pan gasket, not sure where the leak is until I get the crank pulley off for a look. Could be cam seals instead. Sad thing is I replaced all 3 last year at this time. Must have been poor quality that came with the timing set.

One more question- crush washers on the banjo bolts, anyone ever reuse them? I always had to replace them on brakes  but the pressure was much higher. I might not be able to get the right size tomorrow.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, LM 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, Big Brake UG, 2.5" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318 Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.
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