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Author Topic: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info  (Read 7647 times)

WashiestSnake

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G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« on: July 14, 2016, 02:18:30 AM »

Can someone give me an idea about how much torque a G-Series tranny, and the AWD GTX tranny can take?

I'm new to this whole drive train swap/engine stuff. Is it possible to put stronger gears in these transmission? Sorry If i'm asking stupid questions  :-\ .

I'm trying to get a good idea at what i want to use in my build, so any help/info is awesome!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 10:56:17 PM by WashiestSnake »
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

azgtx

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2016, 03:03:42 PM »

Depends what you are going to do with the car. The BF awd g series is not noted for strength but it is all in how you use it. Personally I have never broke one but I don't abuse them. Clutch drops and banging gears will not do for very long. The BG awd tranny is said to be tougher and it has a viscous coupler in the center diff but it mounts differently. There are reported cryo treated gears made in Australia by Albins I think...extremely expensive. Xtrac dog boxes were used when these cars were in rally use. Again very rare and expensive and I know of only 2 units left that have been reported. If you are using a b6t you are not going to make big power unless you plan to spend large money so I wouldn't worry to much about the tranny unless you are going to beat on it...just make sure you get a good one as they are getting hard to find as well as a rebuilder that is familiar with them.
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WashiestSnake

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2016, 04:09:55 PM »

Well the thing is im going to be using the BP motor with a Flyin' Miata 2.0 stroker kit, and if i can get it to work a Jackson racing supercharger. If thats not possible ill be using a  Garret GT2560, so i'd be making around 285hp out of the stroker motor. So in your opinion would it be better to just upgrade my N/A Capri to a FWD G-series, or the AWD G-series? I realize the AWD swap would be pretty hard. Im also planning on running a Megasquirt 3, I see no reason to swap to a Rocketchip/XR-2 ecu, when i could use a standalone.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:16:09 PM by WashiestSnake »
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

azgtx

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2016, 08:14:26 PM »

If you using the BP then use the G series for the 1.8L. The 1.8 is tilted 11* to the front and the trannies are set up for that. FWD or AWD.
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WashiestSnake

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2016, 08:43:02 PM »

Thanks azgtx your a great help  ;D !
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

Rocketman

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016, 08:17:41 AM »

Are you stroking the BP just to be different?

A straight turbo BP is really a lot of power for this chassis. Can't imagine what it would be with a stroker.

Here's the answer to your transmission issues: http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?65289-E153-x-BP-Transmission-Adapter-Plates-In-Stock!

It will probably be a chore to fit that trans in a Capri but well worth it in the long run
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azgtx

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 01:23:43 PM »

That is for sure Matt...it is a bitch even on a BG chassis.
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WashiestSnake

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 03:21:29 PM »

Are you stroking the BP just to be different?

A straight turbo BP is really a lot of power for this chassis. Can't imagine what it would be with a stroker.

Here's the answer to your transmission issues: http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?65289-E153-x-BP-Transmission-Adapter-Plates-In-Stock!

It will probably be a chore to fit that trans in a Capri but well worth it in the long run
No the reason I want the stroker is only for the the quicker spool. I just dont want to spend all the time to tear apart my car just to blow up the AWD transmission. Thats why im trying to get help from you guys before I start laying down the money to get what ill need.

The goal of my car is to be a Fiesta/British Capri RS re-envision on this generation of Capri. My whole plan is to make something that looks like Ford Australia could of offered, had the Capri have been given the correct components. My problem is im new to working on cars so im going to have to lean on you guys alot during this. I know alot of it seems far fetched, but this is something i've been planing since I bought my Capri. I also plan on stiffening the chassis up with fender braces(BG with mods), and GTX floor pan braces.

Also huge thanks Matt, I thought those adapter plates wouldn't be made again! Am i correct in thinking that adapter plate is for the Toyota Altrac AWD tranny?

-Mike
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 11:57:56 PM by WashiestSnake »
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

WashiestSnake

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 07:15:17 PM »

Another thing to note is I don't plan on going straight into a Stroker. My plan is to make a forged BP, and if I think its really needed ill pick up another block and build that. I do want the Supercharger to be different, and to get more torque down low. I'm not a big fan of waiting till 3k to get boost.

Another question I have is what if I decided to use a later model BP ie 99+, considering they are higher compression if I built it correctly should it be able to run boosts of 12psi and higher? I understand high compression results in more horsepower, but at what point is it dangerous?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 11:54:47 PM by WashiestSnake »
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

WashiestSnake

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2016, 01:08:32 AM »

I updated my posts, could you guys answer my questions?
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

Rocketman

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2016, 02:11:21 PM »

the BP4W is a very different beast
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chrispoe

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2016, 08:00:55 PM »

I wouldnít bother with the BP4W from the 99+ miataís.  That engine is setup for RWD, had a short production run so there is limited aftermarket support for it, and most of the tweaks to that engine are mainly beneficial only if you run it N/A.
If you going to do a forged BP build, I wouldnít bother with the stroker kit. A set of aftermarket 1mm oversized pistons will  already get you close to 1.9L and then you can choose whatever compression ratio you want too.


The main problems with the G series trannys is the differential. The pin breaks, comes out the side of the differential, and then takes out the tranny case or the spider gears inside of it strip. The OEM differentials donít like excessive burn-outs, wheel hop, clutch dumping, or other sudden torque shocks. For the differential you can buy a Mfactory lsd for about $750.


The second issue is the tranny casing itself. When under high power levels(250+FTLb of torque), the case flexs and the gears misalign leading to reduced contact area and stripped gears. Generally 3rd is the most prone to stripping followed by 4th.

As for the case flex/stripping gears, Iíve seen various workarounds. PAR Engeneering makes straight cut gears that eliminate the the secondary shafts side loading the tranny case. A lot of Probe owners just upgrade the third gear and install a lsd, and are doing 300+whp just fine.  I know PAR now offers a bearing cup that can be machined/installed into the tranny case too. 
There was also a group buy not too long ago on the Probe forums for Mfactory gears. They were offering 500hp semi- helical 3rd and 4th gears as a package deal for $750 or a short ratio set with 3rd, 4th, and 5th for $1000

Iíve even seen somebody that replaced the fifth gear with a bushing and bolted a steel support plate on the end of the tranny in itís place and ran a KLDE with 20psi of boost. So there are options.


IMHOÖI think the E153 is a awesome tranny upgrade for the BG chassis , but I think it would be more expensive and a bigger hassle than what itís worth trying to get it to fit in a BF chassis.  The BG guys are lucky that the Toyota axles and outer CV can be made to work with their 26 spline hubs.  Iíve already researched for alternatives for our 24 spline hubs and found nothing, Mazda uses INT type splines for the mid shafts and Toyota uses NO splines, so thereíre no hybriding options available for us.
Also going by what Therealdeal posted with his E153 conversion, the larger tranny moved the engine an inch higher and forward too. In order get that to fit our low slopping hood line, a fabricated crossmember will be required to lower the drivetrain and youíll probably have other clearance issues beyond that too.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 08:11:05 PM by chrispoe »
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WashiestSnake

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2016, 08:13:54 PM »

Thanks guys, you're a great help! The reason I was asking about the BP4W was from what I heard is that its the strongest block out of all of the BPs made. One question I have is why are we stuck with a Distributor on these engine? Whats the reason we cant go to C.O.P, other then wiring?

List of Parts I need for the Swap: (Correct Me If Wrong)
BPT Transmission
GTX Driveshaft/Halfshafts(Will XR-2 half-shafts work?)
Hydraulic Pedals(Shouldn't my N/A pedals work?)
Clutch Master Cylinder
Fuel Cell/GTX Fuel Tank?
BF GTX Rear Subframe, with Diff
BG GTX Shifter Cables
XR-2 Engine Harness

Considering im taking out my convertible top/frame could I use a GTX fuel tank? Am I correct in thinking on a GTX the fuel tank is where the convertible top is?


« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 10:44:59 PM by WashiestSnake »
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

Rocketman

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2016, 11:18:09 PM »

You need axles and half-shaft for a 4wd protege, and you need to hybrid them with BF GTX axles in order to make the BPT trans work.
XR2 axles and half-shaft do not work

The stock hydraulic clutch pedal & master should work just fine, you'll need to make a line to connect to the slave.

I have not fitted the GTX fuel tank (cannot find one, super hard to get) but it should fit in place of the stock fuel tank. Not totally positive on that. You will need both fuel pumps/sending units and the balance computer to go with it. There should be absolutely no interference with the ragtop. I would like to delete my fuel cell and go with an under-car tank, and I will probably have to custom fab it

In order to go COP you will have to change the engine management system to something totally different like Megasquirt. I think the guys who re-worked the EVO 8 ECU for BP use have enabled the use of COP

The block is not a weak point on any of the B series engines
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WashiestSnake

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Re: G-Series Transmission/GTX Transmission Info
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2016, 11:48:55 PM »

Thanks Matt, thats all the questions I have so far!   ;D

Now I get to wait 4 months to find all of this, the worst part is a saw a BPT with AWD tranny on Ebay 2 months ago. Too bad I didn't have the money for it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 12:21:48 AM by WashiestSnake »
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)
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