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[icurunnin]

390's are a lot of fuel for the standard rocketchip. If you plan to get a wideband then just stick with your stock injectors and rockets standard tune until he and I can find a good tune for the 390's.

I have a rocketchip now with 390's and they provide too much fuel on the standard tune. we will work out a nice tune though so that even with all these hybrid turbo's you wont have to worry about going lean.

The good news is you can buy a Rocketchip now and hold onto the 390's till he has a chip ready. Then when the time comes I am sure he would sell you the 390 upgrade chip or swap them out for you. Matt is a very understandable guy and I cant wait to get started on the 390 chip once my wideband comes in.

[GregZ]

even at over 400 cfm?

[icurunnin]

Yes, even at 400 cfm. The issue is down low before you even hit boost and as you start to go into it. It dumps to much fuel with 390's even at part throttle and the car starts to surge and wont let you past 3k rpm's.

Trust me, I tried two different chips along with a leaned out version. The two standard tunes had the same result while the leaner tune let me get to about 5k before doing the surge. And even then, down low just didnt feel right.

[icurunnin]

these are the plugs I took out with the current 390 chip which is leaner than the standard. If you want your plugs to look like this from one block of driving then go for it.

I am just trying to save you the trouble ahead of time by telling you NOT to install the 390's just yet. Just by the standard Rocketchip and when we have a tune down then you can throw them in.
 

[GregZ]

thanks,

I appreciate it

[rcicustoms]

man, yall are confusing ...and confused... im running 405cfm and 450cc injectors on a corksport ecu... and on the wideband i dont see above 13.0 at any given rpm ... if you are burning stupid amounts of fuel then the ecu is not the issue ...as it does the same thing at a given rpm and psi.. wether you have 300cc inj. or 450cc inj.. the pulse coming from the ecu is the same... its how much fuel comes out each time a pulse occours...therefor fuel pressure takes play...

an injector rated to flow 300cc does it at a certain fuel pressure... lets just say 32psi pressure for a base...a 300cc injector that squirts 300cc fuel at 32psi will squirt like 350cc at 42psi does that make sense???
so you may be running a 300cc injector but if you bump the pressure you can make the injector push more fuel...

this is how we turbo honda civics with there little 280cc injectors to the tune of 8psi...

now to lean out a big injector you lower the pressure... yet this can lean you out up top...
so how do you get a bigger injector to push the correct amount of fuel down low, yet be rich enough up top not to lean out???

lets think about what controlls the engine guys... you have an ecu whitch reads and calculates how much fuel your engine needs at a given moment using information given to it by a list of engine sensors... the second most important of being the vein airflow meter...

basically this tells the computer how much air is coming in the engine hence how much fuel it needs... if you strap a bigger turbo to the car the airflow meter is then opening faster due to the draw of the bigger turbo... smack the throttle and the afrs will plummet as the ecu sees alot more movement of the flaper due to the bigger turbos air draw....

so how do we change this?

if the ecu sees a flapper open to 75% at 1/2 throttle it uses its maps accordingly and injects alot of fuel... becuase at 75% thats alot of air...but your only giving it 1/2 th.

floor it at say 3,000rpm and the flapper opens up all the way...so now you are at 4,000rpm with the ecu giving you full fuel load... this is correct.. at full throttle... but at say normal 25 -35% throttle the big turbo opening the flap too far gives you too much fuel and makes the fuel mileage suck...wideband act silly and your plugs turn black...right???

so how the fuck do we change this?

you added more suck to your intake with the bigger turbo.. you need to add more resistance to suck with your flapper yall...

the meter is key... it is oldschool, and is easilly manipulated...

WARNING: WE ARE ABOUT TO MESS WITH STUFF THAT MAZDA NEVER INTENDED AND CAN FUCK YOUR SHIT UP
I HAVE DONE THIS A BIT AND CAN HELP YOU ACHIEVE, WHAT I HAVE THROUGH TRIAL AND ERROR... PLEASE WHEN I SAY "NO MORE THAN" OR "BECAREFUL NOT TO"
LISTEN TO ME .. IM NOT JUST SOME ASS WITH NO IDEA WHAT IM DOING... IT TOOK SOME MESSIN AND SOME RESEARCH TO DO THIS....

ok take the black plastic cover off your airflow meter, to expose its inside workings...

 

 

you can basically see the meter is a big potentiometer.. as airflow pushes the flap open it turns the "volume" up on the fuel...

 

 

thares a coil spring that makes the flapper return..you can see it coil as i open the flapper above... if you want the car to lean out down low you need to tighten this spring so as the new "bigger" turbo opens the flapper as the stock one did...but how do we do that???

well the coil spring is attached inside a gold ring that has teeth all the way arround it...
 
thare is a keeper spring arm to the right of it that keeps it from spinning back and loosening the spring tension...
 
what you want to do is spin the ring clockwise 3 or 4 teeth. NOT MORE THAN that or you will lean it out too much (over tighten it) and you need to BE CAREFUL NOT TO crush the ring in any way ..it is soft metal and is vital to proper tension of the spring...
i used a small screwdriver and carefuly pushed it past the keeper 4 clicks ...

this will make the meter more acurately read what your big turbo is doing and straighten up your fuel economy issue also make the power smoother ...it still does the same thing at full throttle but it smartens it up getting there...

make sense... now everyone knows my secret to running 450cc injectors and a big turbo acurately with a corksport ecu on a b6t

DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK AND I AM NOT LIABLE IF YOU FUCK YOUR OWN CAR UP... BUT  this is what i did and it works great ... remember im making over 200hp yall...be good and your welcome...enjoy...Joe..RCICustoms...

[icurunnin]

another key factor Joe is that you are running 23 psi give or take a little of fuel instead of the stock 40 psi give or take a little. If there is a way to program the ecm to work properly without having to band aid the problem then why not?

People run the Rocketchip to 16psi all day every day and love it. Why not run a Rocketchip programmed for larger injectors (390's) that lets tuners run stock fuel pressure, bigger injectors, and a bigger turbo without the worries of going lean, adjusting the VAF(spring mod), buying an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, buying a fuel gauge to adjust the pressure, and having to run such a low amount of fuel pressure?

anyone can run a rising rate fmu and not by a Rocketchip. Will it work? probably, but is it the right way to turn the boost up without blowing the car up? no.

remember we are two different tuners and what works for you may not work for all. I appreciate you posting the VAF, mod but I will still proceed to work with Matt on a 390cc tune for these car and the 323's.

once we get this tune worked out who knows what the limit of Rockets brain is. He may start to look for a 450cc tune since the blue tops are more common.  

[rcicustoms]

umm fred im running 33psi of fuel pressure man ... 23psi just wouldnt do a damn thing for it.....
if you want that kind of tunability run a standalone and quit bullshittin...
switch to a real mass airflow, and coilpacks like a miata, and buy a megasquirt or haltech and quit playin.... what you and rocket are trying is what has been done in the honda world for years...playin with injector values..WTF

what i did compensates for a bigger turbo.. not larger injectors guy... matching spring rate to flow rate.... nothing to do with injectors...
getting the car to run, down low and during normal driving conditions as if it had a vj-14 and 300cc denso injectors on it still.
 
now ive talked to a good # of tuners that say to get the level of tunability you guys seem to be  
wanting to achieve with an acient old ecu..on a budget, would be to swap the harness and all the engine sensors from an ex or better civic over to a b6t and run chrome on a p-28 ecu with a chip and tune it using a laptop... that would yeild the tunability you are looking for, for about 250.00 plus software and a chip...

but hell if your gonna spend money then spend some money, and buy an autronic or haltech and quit bandaiding your shit with an old assed nostalgic ecu designed in the 80s...
 the level your looking for, didnt exist then...honda came up with it back in the damn early to mid 90s...
until you have tuned a stock p-28 with chrome
and seen what a values chart looks like on a laptop you dont know what rockets dealing with..
hes a little limited as to what he can play with on the dinosaur ecu we have in our cars...

by the time yall are done playing youll have spent enough time and money trying to achieve the impossible that you could have spent the 800.00 and built a damn mega squirt...

now that being said, my car runs the same as a chipped car running 18psi on a vj-14 with 300cc injectors ... only im running the 14b ..(still the only one on here doing that) with 450cc injectors (the only one on here doing that)and my car is a fuck of alot faster...and gee whiz, i dont run rich down low, and i dont lean out up top... shit, i musta done somethin right huh...
....and with all these bandaids...Joe...

[Gostlrs]

hell i been lost....when i get to the point of these mods...i will have to figure it out then..  

[icurunnin]

sounds like you took everything personal Joe. The time and money Rocket and I put in to the ecm benefits the Capri and 323 COMMUNITY, not just me. Am I willing to spend some time and money to benefit others?? Yeah. You dont seem to understand that a lot of people like plug and play which is what we are shooting for.

I am glad your setup works great for you Joe. Is it the fastest? Sure if it makes you feel better, but this isnt about going fast with $1k car. It is to help others. If we were going to prove who has the fastest car around here I would be rolling my GVR4 right now.

its not though, its about working with others to get these little cars to move and move quick. anyone could have dumped $3k (not saying you did)into their Capri and have the bragging right of having the fastest Capri on the site and the ONLY one running a X turbo. I am sure their are several of us on here with the capital to get our cars in the 12's and 11's without putting us in the poor house. Again, its not about that to some of us.

get some rest and dont take what I say so personal.

[rcicustoms]

actually im going to work in a few, and im just tired of posting something to help others and having something said ...explain something to me fred ...how are you guys going to compensate for cfm of flow via the ecu??? a t3 t4 would open the vam completely at about 3,000 rpm at about 60% throttle.... that tells the ecu that you need gobs of fuel to compensate for a wide open vam... how do you compensate for that via the ecu? its going to kick the ecu into closed loop .... how do you compensate without changing the vam rate to match the turbo?

thats right you cant... and when you realize that this isnt a dsm, and its much older technology, you will realize how the dsm does it is by the mass air flow... thats why dsm computers are on the mass air after the cone guy.... ive done all kinds of research to figure out how to compensate for it... and your right this isnt about the fastest car... its just that ive done it and now your trying to tell me thares a better way.... but thares not... without spending gobs of money... this is the cheap and easy..(what this site seems to be about).. way to acomplish it ...i just wont post about my car or what ive done anymore ...i did this once and you brought me back... so what gives? ... fuck it, i aint helpin no more i quit... thares a better way than the way i found that works any way, so fuck it....Joe....

[azgtx]

geez guys...maybe I am out of line here but my biggest thing about these cars( Capris and 323's )is don't get upside down. They are not worth putting gobs of dough into. They are a really cheap hobby the way I see it..well maybe not that cheap..I could take up needlepoint. Any way to push more ponies out of these cars without dropping the green is alright with me. I could just go and get a MS3,Evo or WRX instead of spending big money in a 323 and NEVER get it back.  my .02. Thanks I appreciate the little tips..ALWAYS
Clay

[icurunnin]

Joe, chill out man.

Take you bi-polar meds and settle down some. your basically come across as we all have to follow you or we will be slow, outdated, and not following honda's guidelines.

dont be a dick and quit being a baby saying your done with it. grow some balls and just admit everyone has their own opinion and not everyone is going to follow you.

we are grown men around here so please try and act like one.

[GregZ]

Since were counting our blessings over here.. LOL i definatly apreciate all the help i get from ALL you guys! Im just a dumb ass kid tryin to learn a few things and im learning believe me, all thanks to you guys! Expecially joe, rocket, and icu since you guys always have an answer to EVERY one of my problems!

THANKS GUYS,

Greg

[Gus Kelley]

Hey Joe! I stayed out of this til now. I've appreciated your knowledge since you've joined the forum. I've even told you so a few times As can be sensed by your outburst here, something is really eating at you. I really don't believe it's here at the forum but don't really know. I hope you can chill so that we can enjoy your input.  Gus