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Author Topic: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?  (Read 4834 times)

Jim Simms

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Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« on: March 23, 2014, 03:15:51 AM »

Every month or so (maybe two months) I get this nice cloud of smoke out the rear. It is pretty thick.
Scared me bad first time I saw it. Then, it stopped. This past week I was trying to get the XR2 to pass smog (California) and the timing was adjusted. Said it was 12 BTDC after adjustment. Idles perfectly. Starts easily.
Then the smoke hit me. I could smell it. Looked up to see the plume out the back. Noticed my power was suffering. Thought the more I pushed it, the more smoke came out. Felt like it might be associated with the turbo.
Is there an oil ring of sorts on the turbo which might allow lubricating oil to reach the chambers and burn?
This comes about from time to time, then it stops. I can romp on the turbo (not too hard) after I feel the smoking stops and it does ok (even thought I think my guage is not accurate, only showing 5psi as max).
Ok Matt, and all you other smart guys, where is all this smoke coming from? and why did the power suffer?
Jim
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Chicken

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 10:26:26 AM »

Whats the engine's mileage, did is pass smog?  I may be the plastic check valve above the alternator or maybe even intake valve seals.  ...Not to vindicate the turbo.

The tubo has a bushing.  There are lots of pics on the web.
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blueamber

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2014, 12:11:47 PM »

Lots of questions here... has the gauge always read no more than 5 psi?  Have you driven another Capri turbo for power comparison?  My 3 xr2's are all different.  The black 93 has best power, reads up to 8 psi on the gauge, turbo power spins up really fast, really snaps your head back in 2nd and 3rd gear.  The red 91 gets to 7 psi slower, does not have the snap of the 93, runs great, not as good mpg as the 93.  The white 91 only slowly gets to 5 psi, does not have the power of the 93, I have gotten smoke out the exhaust at times, gets to 5 psi eventually.  I think the turbo needs rebuilding.

What I'm getting at is maybe the turbo has been weak all along, and the smoke is just indicating the seals are getting worse and more oil is being released into the engine.

Also, have you confirmed if there is moisture in that smoke?  Any moisture dripping out the pipe at the same time?  A small hole in the head gasket can let coolant into the engine, more at times than at other times.  Very white could be steam, more darker probably not...Chris
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Jim Simms

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2014, 09:48:18 PM »

The psi has never reached over 5.  There does not seem to have any moisture coming from the tailpipe.

The smoking has stopped. It does happen from time to time, and does stop.
 The turbo might be weak. If there is an oil seal which would allow oil into the intake, that would make sense.
If it were "weak" would that explain the loss of power when it smoked?
Also, what would explain the fact that it does not smoke all the time?

I will try again to pass smog. Once that is done, sounds like I might be in the market for a new turbo.   I might need a note from you guys which I can give my girlfriend, telling her I need a new turbo.
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blueamber

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 12:05:41 AM »

I got nothing more... are you using oil?  Most all turbos leak some oil, you can verify it by inspecting the intake to the throttle body.  Intermittent smoking is a mystery, could be dumping oil into the engine fouls a plug, losing power, then when the leak stops (???) the plug cleans itself eventually... sound like BS to me so ignore this post!!!Chris
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Jim Simms

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 02:40:14 AM »

Yes, the engine uses more oil that it should.
I usually have to put in a quart or so, and I have to watch the level.
The engine has 170,000 miles. the mechanic says the compression is good. He checked it last time he changed the plugs.
Your assumption sure seems on target: oil fouling the plug, loses power, burns off.
If it is an oil seal on the turbo, does the entire turbo have to be removed?
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Rocketman

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 02:44:11 AM »

I'd suggest pulling the turbo intake tubing and checking the compressor wheel shaft for play. If it moves in/out or excessively side to side then it's time for a rebuild or a new turbo. Inspect the outlet pipes for oil on the inside, if they're coated then yes you're leaking oil from the turbo. The intercooler usually accumulates quite a bit of oil and will need a thorough cleaning.

If is is the turbo, it's time to upgrade it :D

Yes the turbo will need to be removed & rebuilt, or replaced with a rebuilt unit. It's not a normal oil seal like you'd find on the rest of the engine.

170,000 miles, it may be getting tired.

Check the intake, check for shaft play, report back!
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1.8L Turbo All Wheel Drive Capri... the "GTXR2"


Rocketman

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 02:46:34 AM »

The oil may not be fouling the plugs - oil vapor or droplets drastically reduces the working octane of gasoline and can cause detonation and other issues, that can cause the power loss issue. The turbo might not be spinning at full speed or with great resistance, I experienced intermittent power loss on my first XR2 when the turbo was on its way out.
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1.8L Turbo All Wheel Drive Capri... the "GTXR2"


Jim Simms

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 08:18:30 PM »

Changed out the oxygen sensor. Mechanic look at larger hoses, and oil coated the hoses. Mechanic is good and honest guy, not turbo expert,  but showed me fresh oil in hoses.
I noticed greasy oil on inside of hose off the turbo. He told me this is where my high oil consumption was originating.
Plugs were sooooo fouled. Hard to believe it ran as good as it did.
Next: when the heat shield came off, allowing access to the oxygen sensor, a crack was noticed from the top of the hole for the sensor to the top of the exhaust manifold.

If I get this baby to pass smog, it looks like I will be in the market for a turbo and exhaust manifold.

There was a posting of a turbo upgrade, a hybrid, I believe Matt was telling us about.
If I get a new exhaust manifold, one that bolts right up to the block, is it possible to get the upgrade vj11/hybrid mounted on the same manifold, or will I have to get a diff manifold?

I cant be the only one with a turbo issue.

Thanks.
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Rocketman

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 10:11:44 PM »

No I've blown turbos before as well as many others. Luck of the draw.

Heres the pinned post I have regarding turbo upgrades:
http://teamcapri.com/forum/index.php/topic,2867.0.html

The majority of XR2's have a cracked manifold. In 95+% of cases is makes no difference to the operation of the vehicle

Look into GPop-Shop or Dallas turbo for getting your unit rebuilt. If you go the hybrid route it may end up cheaper and less downtime in the long run
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1.8L Turbo All Wheel Drive Capri... the "GTXR2"


Jim Simms

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2014, 09:29:37 PM »

After finish with next repair, it is turbo time.
Matt, you mentioned that it was cheaper and less down time to have the turbo made into hybrid. I guess that would be putting VJ11 parts into my VJ14.
Other than porting out the wastegate (making it larger?), how would this work?
Would you or someone have the VJ11 parts which a mechanic would put into the turbo?
Sounds enticing to me. Am sure my girlfriend will be very pleased. Maybe. Maybe not.
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Rocketman

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2014, 03:11:46 AM »

I posted the link above, that has extensive details regarding the turbo upgrades.

Your mechanic is not the person you'd want to rebuild/hybrid the turbo, you want a turbo shop to do that.

Dallas/Majestic Turbo and GPop shop both have experience rebuilding/hybridizing these units
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1.8L Turbo All Wheel Drive Capri... the "GTXR2"


Jim Simms

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2014, 02:12:09 PM »

I will get one of those guys to do it.
will have the turbo guy here in touch with the rebuilder to make sure all is done correctly.
I will also print out your page on the hybrid for the turbo guy here.
Looking forward to this
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Jim Simms

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Re: Smoke sometimes, power loss. Is it the Turbo oil seal?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 03:13:01 PM »


Found a turbo place 
turbocharger pros, 800 923-0143.
Remanufactured
675-200 core= 475.
Best price so far
Do have to replace it
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