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Author Topic: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)  (Read 10450 times)

greywolf27030

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2017, 10:06:49 PM »

WOW

Jack Byrd
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SHOwn

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2017, 11:25:51 PM »

I got the hubs back from the machine shop and they did not quite fit. I had them cut down .54" (dia.) but they caught on a ridge on the inside of the rotors, which Matt mentioned. I provided a rotor to test fit but the shop didn't take the hubs down enough. My coworker who just retired had previously run a machine shop and he finished them on his lathe for me.

However, I've been a little too busy to start the project, and everything is sitting on my bench. My OEM brakes still work decent with a small amount of pulse, and the pads have about 10k left on them, so I have a little time to get around to it. I would do the mock up test on my parts, but I have to put the seals on first and pack the bearings to get started, but I'm too busy painting my windows (house). I will try to post a completion to this project later this summer.

I probably won't get them on by the MACG, but maybe I'll throw them in the trunk for some discussion. I noticed that some said that NA knuckles are too small, but the 94 pair I have appear to be the same as my 91 XR2 brakes, but I won't be sure until I take off the XR2 brakes some weekend in August when I get back.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, Liquid Metal 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, 2 1/2" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318i Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2017, 10:40:16 PM »

Ok BBU update. I've been enjoying driving instead of fixing the XR2 for the last half of the summer. So, here's where my big brake upgrade sits.


I decided to mock up the fitment with my spare knuckles from the 94 N/A I stripped. Well, some say N/A knuckles won't work, but I used them along with the old seal, the spacer and the old bearings which I honed out a few thousandths so I wouldn't need a bearing puller to disassemble it later. I was able to prove that the parts I listed do in fact work. The only modification that was done was to turn down the hub ears a little more than 0.54" so that the ears clear that inner ridge of the rotor recess.



The stock Escort loaded calipers did NOT need any modification at all, they clear the 266mm Galant rotors by about the thickness of a credit card when the caliper is bolted in place. The width between the pads is just exactly enough to take the Galant rotor with only minor contact like all brakes seem to rub lightly. The stock Capri caliper does NOT fit the thicker rotor being 1/8" tighter between the pads than the Escort calipers (which barely fit) are.


A little more measuring reveals where the Escort pads shine through. They measure at the same width front to back that is, but they are a full 1/4" taller than the Capri pads, and that makes all the difference. The two rotors are maybe 1/16" different in diameter, the Galant being only slightly taller, but those Escort pads take advantage of rotor meat closer to the hub that was unused by the Capri pads. Those Galant rotors weigh at least twice what the Capri rotors do, which is not good, but maybe it won't kill too much performance. I can extract some more boost to overcome the loss if I feel the upgrade loses performance.

I think I'll wait a few more weeks to pull the switch since we have 28th Street Metro Cruze next weekend (25-26th) in Grand Rapids. I'll be there and hope a few of my fellow Michiganders make it alongside me.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, Liquid Metal 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, 2 1/2" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318i Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

chrispoe

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2017, 07:23:06 PM »

The piston in the Escort GT calipers is a larger diameter at 54mm vs the Capri's original 50.8mm, which gives more braking power with the same amount of force applied to the pedal.

One other modification that will be required is the Capri's hyd brake hose won't bolt up to the Escort caliper cuz the end fitting has a longer locator pin.  To solve this issue I just filed a slot in the caliper casting to accommodate the Capri's hose fitting. 
As shown in the pic by the red line.

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SHOwn

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2017, 09:07:26 PM »

Thanks for that important tip, Chrispoe, I'll check it out and grind it out before I start. Here's a few more views. I agree with the concerns some have expressed about the slide pin length. They do fit, but the Escort bolts were a little too long so I reused a Capri bolt and I did chew up one slide pin rubber seal in my trial but I have spares. If you look, you can see how much the slides protrude. I think it is a consequence of the size of the rotor and the pads being full thickness with shims included (they were loaded calipers). I could pull the shims if I want a little more leeway.





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R. Powell
'91 XR2, Liquid Metal 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, 2 1/2" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318i Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

WashiestSnake

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2017, 06:22:42 PM »

Couldn't you just swap the front brake hose to a Escort hose and not grind it down? I bought a set of stainless steel hoses with the intention of doing that. That's awesome to know that I can use my stock knuckles aswell, that means I'll be putting my BBK on soon!
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1991 Mercury Capri 68,xxx Miles--Project(AWD)
1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

SHOwn

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2017, 08:25:26 PM »

I've read a ton about this upgrade and somewhere I seem to remember something about the Escort hoses being too short. Maybe I can verify that.

Snake, do make sure that your N/A (if that's what you have) has the larger brakes. Apparently with N/A's it depended on what was on the shelf when they grabbed for front brakes when they were building them. Before you count on using those knuckles measure them - the 94 N/A rotors I pealed off measure 10-1/8" diameter.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, Liquid Metal 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, 2 1/2" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318i Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

SHOwn

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2017, 10:31:53 AM »

Iím thinking of doing the upgrade today but I depend on this car for work on Monday, so I hope I donít run into any showstoppers. I reread this thread and I have two questions if anyone has experience with the upgrade.

First, my pads barely fit on the rotors since they are loaded calipers. Iím thinking to remove one shim from each side and just apply a thin coat of disk brake quiet so I can gain a better freewheel and since heat makes everything expand maybe I should do this? Is there a reason not to do this? The rotors rotate in there but there is light drag.

Second question - these loaded Escort calipers clear the top of the rotor just enough to slide in 2 business cards thickness (I donít own a feeler gauge). So must I grind some of the caliper casting out of there between the pads? It does clear.

Answers will help me dive into this today.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, Liquid Metal 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, 2 1/2" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318i Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

Rocketman

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2017, 12:01:56 PM »

I would grind the caliper throat just a bit - things will expand and gaps will close a bit when things heat up

I do recall that new pads are a tight fit, I don't remember doing anything about it though
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SHOwn

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2017, 10:15:55 PM »

Thanks Matt, I didn't have enough time to do the whole job, and I had to drive it this morning so I did the final perpetrations so I can complete it in a few weeks. I did grind a little more clerance so the tops of the rotors have enough space for sure.

 I was going to leave in the shims as well, but when I tightened the caliper bolts it was just way too tight so I took one shim out of each set and now with the bolts tight the pads only lightly touch. I used some CRC spray-on disk break quiet on the back of the pads and the caliper ears in place of the outer shims, but kept the inner shims that cover the piston cups.

I went ahead and packed the bearings and put them in baggies until I can ge to it.
Maybe in two weeks. I have a family get together next weekend back in Illinois.
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R. Powell
'91 XR2, Liquid Metal 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, 2 1/2" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318i Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

WashiestSnake

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2017, 07:31:56 PM »

I have a few questions. I just went back and reread how to change the bearings in the front brakes, and I wanted to make sure that the spacer was machined only to the knuckle and not the hub. I had lost my spacers when I took the knuckle apart to send the hubs off to Matt to get machined down. I currently have a new set of knuckles coming so I wanted to make sure that I can swap in my machined hub, and just use the correct knuckle to hub spacer. I also was wondering what is this caliper throat you guys keep talking about, and where abouts is it? Sorry for the stupid questions this is my hobby and I still have alot to learn!
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1996 Lincoln Continental -- The Boat(Given to my Brother)

Rocketman

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2017, 07:44:27 PM »

Yes, the spacers are matched to the knuckles.

The caliper throat is the bridge between the inside & outside of the caliper, where the edge of the brake rotor would come close to. You'll see it when you are putting things together
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SHOwn

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2017, 08:51:20 PM »

Last weekend, I finally got around to putting it all together. I used Motil DOT 5.1 brake fluid and flushed the whole system as best I could with a mighty-vac and pedal bleeding.

My impression is that braking seems a little better, but the pedal could be firmer, making me wonder if I should get it power-bled at a shop. Might be that she needs a master cylinder too.


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R. Powell
'91 XR2, Liquid Metal 16" Chrome Drifters, White Gauge Faces, Kuhmo 40's, 2 1/2" Mandrel Bent CATback, BMW318i Heated Seats, `94 console, '99 Dodge Neon Spoiler, '94 XR2 Sideskirts Bumpers and taillights, Fresh Basecoat-Clearcoat Cardinal Red (Jul2014), vj11/vj14 hybrid, manual boost CTL.

Rocketman

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2017, 10:15:54 PM »

There is a bit of pedal firmness sacrificed in the upgrade, the bores on the pistons are larger and it throws the ratio off just a bit. A larger bore Master Cylinder would firm the pedal feel back up.

I've looked into a few upgrades. It's a bit of a problem as the Capri MC has an integrated proportioning valve, which is somewhat unusual. I believe they did it to save space.
So the theoretical combo I came up with was to use a Miata brake booster and prop valve (which mounts to the booster, right next to the MC), with a MC from an EVO which I cannot remember the year or gen of. (some digging into Miata upgrades may liberate the info) This would get us to a 1" or larger bore. This would be a fair bit of work, and I'm not certain the booster would bolt onto the firewall but it's a 4 bolt pattern and some basic fabbing might get it to work. This would of course require re-working all of the brake lines on the firewall, as well.
Again, this is all theoretical, and I'm not sure if the prop valve ratios would work, but it'd be cheap

I thought the Capri had 15/16" bore but I cannot locate any sources to corroborate this at the moment
The 323 has a 7/8" bore but it appears the Wagon model also has a 15/16" bore
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chrispoe

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Re: Galant Brake Upgrade (Big Brake Kit!)
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2017, 11:16:08 PM »

The Capri's master cylinder is only 13/16.
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