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Author Topic: Honda Capri?  (Read 7684 times)

mazdacapri

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Honda Capri?
« on: August 27, 2012, 05:30:00 AM »

i was wondering if any body had some useful information about honda b series swaps into a capri/323 or even a festiva or aspire.
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Rocketman

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Honda Capri?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 07:09:00 AM »

It can be done with some tricky engineering and wiring, but why? There are plenty of Mazda engine swaps that are much more bolt-in, that are much more potent platforms:

BP (1.8L with a 210hp JDM turbo version) needs some minor mods to fit but bolts directly to the stock transmission. These have been done befote, and it's a potent swap

FE3 (2.0L 4cyl) Folks have been stuffing these in their Miatas recently, they can be made to fit using a G-series from a MX6. (Hasn't been done in a Capri, but should work. Been done in several 323's now. Very similar to the BP)

F2T (2.2L turbo) older 12v sohc torquemonster of an engine, absolutely bulletproof (hasn't been done in a Capri, but been done in both 323 and even a Festiva)

KL V6 (2.5L dohc V6, JDM version over 200hp) These engines are really potent powerhouses, and are becoming wildly popular swaps in the Escort/Protege/323 world. Someone's even stuffed one into a Festiva (and then turbo'd it, nuts!) The V6 would be the holy grail of engine swaps. It's all aluminum too, and weighs only a few more pounds than the stock Capri turbo motor. It should fit into the capri engine bay just fine, my only concern is the passenger headlight frame... I should know soon enough!

Then you have the non-mazda Ford motor swaps... Ford Zetec motor would be a good one. Newer Mazda MZR w/ direct injection... etc

Swapping in a honda motor would involve a lot of custom work, to start with the motor & trans are flip-flopped in the engine bay. The axle splines won't fit the stock hubs, so Honda suspension would need to be grafted in, or you'd need costly custom axles. The subframe would need to be rebuilt to the other side of the engine bay and custom motor mounts made up. Wiring wouldn't be too difficult unless you are doing an OBDII swap. Plus, it's sort of a kick in the teeth to the Capri, lol.

Mazda has a large selection of engines to choose from!

Not to mention there's a massive amount of potential in the stock XR2 motor - with a mild turbo upgrade and supporting mods it can easily hit over 200hp. No swap needed!
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mazdacapri

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Honda Capri?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2012, 01:09:00 PM »

I would love to have any of those swaps or even a turbo b6 and tranny and all the goodies that go with it. The BP is my fav. But is honda not awsome? U can make frankenmotors out of them. Also I have spare honda parts including engine, trans, motor mounts, shift linkage, wire harness, ecu, axles, and other things.

What i dont have is extra honda hubs, upper control arms, custom axles, and custom motor mounts (performance but not custom).

I dont think b series hondas have sub frames. and those upper control arms dont look like they would fit in the capri. Motor mounts are a different story but just as complicated. The availability of capris in the junkyard being slim to none out here doesnt help either. Do you mean relocation of the subframe or bending or both?

Mazda makes great cars. especially the rx7 but can non turbo B6d/B6z/BP make high power and torque?
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Rocketman

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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2012, 04:47:00 PM »

You can build a Frankenmotor with the Mazda motors too... Put an F2T crank in an FE3 dohc with Chevy pistons and you end up with a stroked 2.0 to 2.2L    I'm personally not a big fan of the Honda stuff, don't get me wrong you can do awesome things with it - just not my thing.

The B6D can make okay power N/A... but it requires fairly extensive modifications. The BP is a better N/A platform IMO - they breathe really well. The extra displacement makes a big difference

I make an adapter manifold for running motorcycle throttles on the B6D for a custom ITB setup if you're interested - you won't get much higher N/A performance than that. Will also have kits for the BP available soon.

The KLZE is just about the ultimate NA motor you could cram into the Capri with some bolt-on's they become pretty mean.

The Honda might not use a subframe, but the Capri does and it needs to be there (it ties the whole front end together) It's sort of molded around the engine/trans, so plopping a Honda drivetrain ontop of it would likely require some heavy massaging of it. When I did my AWD conversion I had to hack it up and re-build sections of it to fit around the AWD transmission.

Imagine fitting these to your capri    

 

 
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mazdacapri

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Honda Capri?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2012, 06:53:00 PM »

Wowoah! Holy Crap. Fairly extensive modifications. How would that setup work there being a VAF, IAC and all that other unneccesary crap. what kind of throttle bodies and linkages etc. cooling line deletes, i want to know everything about that. what about heavy heat resistant plastic gaskets like the hondata gaskets since theres no heat from coolant.? Does it fit on a miata?

Haha Frankenmazda COOL! with boost that would be a powerplant. what model chevy? Ive herd of that stuff being done with old bugs thats awsome. does the NA crapi come with b6d, b6z, mix between the two? and does it even make a difference?

Hacking up the subframe is kindof un appealing there being not many capris or even escort gts at the junkyards over here. the upper control arms is another mystery. By messaging do you mean use a soft hammer? Haha. what about a miata ecu/harness so you can use more aftermarket equipment? And b6d/z exhaust for optimal breathing?
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Rocketman

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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 09:36:00 PM »

Ideally, you would run a standalone ECU like Megasquirt to fully utilize the ITB's capabilities. The ITB's are 42mm ID throttles from a 1000RR Honda (see? you get SOME honda parts, lol)

However, with a plenum - you can still route all the airflow through the VAF. A TPS adapter would be easy to make. There aren't any complicated linkages to make for the throttle cable - you can use what's there.

The nonturbo Capri uses a B6D engine - basically a turbo-less B6T. Higher compression, slightly different cams, different ECU. Running a Miata ECU isnt worth the huge hassle it would warrant - Megasquirt would be best. The 1.6 Miata stuff isn't really tune-able as far as I know.


The IAC/BSP is an independent unit, and as such you can mount still run it. You'd probably end up with a vacuum block from each cylinder for sensors, the IAC could attach there.

This ITB manifold was designed to fit the Miata as well  

I've made a water bypass plate to go with the manifold - it's a spacer that sits between the thermostat housing and the head. You need longer bolts for it - but it moves all the coolant fittings away from the manifold while still keeping proper pressure differentials in the system to make things like the heater core work. You can also put the stock temp sensor into it.

I haven't looked, but I'm sure someone makes phenolic spacers for the Miata - they'd work on the Capri. The Miata doesn't use much water in the manifold though, just some for the IAC valve - the Capri uses quite a bit so you'd want to delete that.

Here's FE3 info + the stroker build: http://www.solomiata.com/FE3.html Lots of really, really good Mazda engine info on the rest of the site so look around!

I can say with relative certainty that you won't be able to fit a double A-Arm suspension in the front of the Capri without some really major surgery. There's just not enough room. It's designed for the Macpherson strut+lower control arm combo and not much else.

And by "Massaging" I mean I had to take an oxy-acetylene torch and plasma cutter to the subframe, and then weld in 1/2" custom bent reinforcing bar around the new drivetrain    Where are you located, it's not in your profile. I have an extra rust free subframe for sale if you're interested.

You can look around for an old PaceSetter header for the Capri - they were made at one point. Now you either go custom, or adapt something else to work. Some of the Honda's have almost identical port size and spacing on the exhaust size, you could re-drill the flange to work or weld a new one on...lots of options there

Sorry for the unorganized blobs of text, lots of questions to answer and I've been up a while
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mazdacapri

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Honda Capri?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 09:31:00 AM »

is it the same engine as the mx3 with different electronics? if so will the mx3 intake manifold fit on the capri?

what are the limits of the stock na capri ecu? does it act the same way as the 1.6 miatas ecu(rich)? that would be good since you can squeeze 150ish hp out of them pretty cheap.

as for the ITBs:
do you have a picture of the vaf plenum? im guessing that wouldn't be included with the ITB adapter. would i need to shorten the throttle cable?
Is BSP like a fast idle valve, because in hondas that can be eliminated without a CEL but the IAC stays connected.

honda upper control arms are way too big. I would have to find something 6 to 8 inches wide and probably have to run linear spring and skinny struts aswell. ill look into adding a honda rear mount bracket.

Took some measurements
 

 

 

   

b16 header
 

 

 

 
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Rocketman

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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2012, 08:28:00 PM »

is it the same engine as the mx3 with different electronics? if so will the mx3 intake manifold fit on the capri?

The MX3 got a B6 engine but it was updated and redesigned, the head is supposed to flow more. It uses a different intake manifold, and the fuel injectors fit into the head as opposed to into the manifold like our engine. Electronics were totally different, including I believe OBDII when it went to the 96 model year.


what are the limits of the stock na capri ecu? does it act the same way as the 1.6 miatas ecu(rich)? that would be good since you can squeeze 150ish hp out of them pretty cheap.

You should be able to hit those numbers on the stock ECU without much of an issue.

as for the ITBs:
do you have a picture of the vaf plenum? im guessing that wouldn't be included with the ITB adapter. would i need to shorten the throttle cable?


I'm still working on the plenum - not sure if it will be a cast unit or composite (fiberglass or carbon + resin) I don't think you'll need to shorten the throttle cable - I'll be running these on my new project car soon so I can iron out all the finer details. The plenum isn't necessary if you're moving to a standalone ECU.

Is BSP like a fast idle valve, because in hondas that can be eliminated without a CEL but the IAC stays connected.

It's exactly like that, the ECU runs a stepper motor portion and the other half uses a mechanical hot-wax valve. They can be disconnected and run manually for cold start without throwing a CEL

honda upper control arms are way too big. I would have to find something 6 to 8 inches wide and probably have to run linear spring and skinny struts aswell. ill look into adding a honda rear mount bracket.

I'd look at different Honda models and see if you can find one that runs a traditional MacPherson strut while still having a compatible spline setup.
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